Comments on: Guardian 24139/Gordius – no letup for George…

By: Simply_simon

Simply_simon — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:31:31 +0000

Dornford Yates was born in Kent.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:06:09 +0000

Whatever Paul gets up to, I don’t think ? is an anagram indicator.

If your definition for TORNADO is ‘twister’, I suppose you could word the clue to indicate an anagram without using an official anagind. Or: if the required word is something like ‘broken marriage’, then ‘grim area’ might suffice per se plus a definition. Or: some apposite anagrams are made to include as part of fodder a word that is, or is sufficiently like an indicator.

There are probably quite a few ways around actual use of inicators of various sorts, but using ? alone as an anagind is not one on my list.

By: Stan

Stan — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:07:22 +0000

Re: 11a – isn’t the question-mark enough of an anagram indicator ? A minor irritation after Paul’s antics yesterday (e.g 1d “Frau”)
Re: 22d – Dornford Yates is the one that springs to mind (not read him, but Tom Sharpe mentions him a lot)

Re: Barbara’s comments above – if you look up George Bush in the dictionary, the definition is “disturbance of the reasoning faculty; marked by delusional or illogical speech” …

By: Barbara

Barbara — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:10:57 +0000

re clue 15: paralogia
While I’m not particularly fond of Prez George W. Bush, I think that clue was nasty and disrespectful, and a gross exaggeration of our leader’s shortcomings.

By: linxit

linxit — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:51:03 +0000

Barbara, I know exactly what you mean, having attempted the New York Times crossword occasionally. And that isn’t even cryptic! Believe it or not, the rest of the world have never heard of most of the famous baseball and American football players, TV comedians and other celebrities that seem to pepper that esteemed puzzle. Not to mention the “unconventional” spellings, but that works both ways too.

However, in this case I got the answer from the clue and crossing letters, only working out the wordplay afterwards, so I don’t think it would have been impossible for you, just a bit perplexing. Having said that, I agree with you about using the first name only. Penelope Keith isn’t a “first name only” star like e.g. Madonna or Kylie. I think this was a clue where you had to get the answer first, then work backwards to figure out the wordplay, which isn’t hard if you’ve heard of her (as I’m fairly sure anybody over here who owns a TV has).

BTW, what did you think of 15 down?

By: Barbara

Barbara — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:17:44 +0000

re clue #1: Having been born and lived in the US all my life, and never having spent any time in the UK, I had never been treated to the talents of Penelope Keith.
As a general principle, I don’t think it’s fair game to use a person’s first name, and expect the solver to know who that person is, or was. Very few well known people are known by their first name only.
I realize that Penelope isn’t as common a name as John, or William, but setters have used this device many times before. I object.

By: Kevin Ward

Kevin Ward — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:13:17 +0000

Now you come to mention it linxit, I do remember that excellent, ‘naughty’ Azed clue. I was having yet another CRAFT moment – Can’t Remember A F***ing Thing!

By: linxit

linxit — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:58:18 +0000

Well, I think Azed blazed the trail in The Observer with his clue to 20ac in Azed no. 1797:

Teetotaller worried re ‘dirt’ imbibed by worthless fellow (12) – answer WATER-DRINKER.

By: Kevin Ward

Kevin Ward — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:59:05 +0000

Was 26 across the first clue to use a four-letter word in a quality newspaper cryptic? I can’t recall seeing one before. Cyclops in Private Eye is obviously in a scatological league of his own!

By: linxit

linxit — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:38:29 +0000

24ac - trangle (heraldry) n a diminutive of the fesse. Well, that makes everything clear then!