Never knowingly undersolved.

Independent 6871/Tees

Posted by neildubya on October 23rd, 2008


Good puzzle, easy in places, tougher in others. I still don’t understand 3, 6 and 22d though.

8 TEST TUBE – liked the definition here: “Birthplace of Science”.
9/15 (NINEVEH ABOUT)*,N – A BUN IN THE OVEN. I got this from the definition and letter enumeration.
10 A,R,GO
12 BA(KIN)G – 22d is FAMILY, or KIN and I guess it’s caught because it’s in BAG.
17 GAME in (NEED)* – ENDGAME. Filled this in without knowing why “whales” might be GAM. Apparently it’s a collective noun for a group of whales.
20 ((SAYS PECK)* – SKYSCAPE. I guess you could quibble that not all SKYSCAPEs will be “blue”.
23 SPOONERISM – cleverly done this, but if you don’t like naughty swears, look away now: a spoonerism of “shining wit” is “whining shit” (or “obnoxious person, complainer”).
24 TARA – very tough I thought although I didn’t understand the “Kingly Hill” bit when solving so that must have made it harder. The Hill of Tara (or Hill of Kings) is in County Meath, Ireland and TARA is a Northern expression for “goodbye” (vale is Latin for farewell).
26/14 SO,(EVEN THIRD WORLD)* – SOLD DOWN THE RIVER. I knew the phrase but didn’t know it had originated with slavery.
1 RE,PROA,CH – a proa is a Malay sailing boat and often crops up in puzzles, probably because it’s a useful sequence of letters.
2 (b)OTTO(m)
3 GUN DOG – a retriever belongs in the GUN DOG group but I’m not sure what “used by Cockers” means.
5 hidden in “jaPAN THE ONsenji”
6 MUDSLINGER – don’t understand this one: “One said to involve unclean caste in defamation?”.
16 SE(REG)ATE (going up) – ETAGERES. An etagere is a type of display stand.
19 IS,S in (MALE)* – MELISSA.
21 KIPPER – doesn’t really need explaining does it?
22 FAMILY – the full clue is “…Corleone’s line?”. The “…” is there as a link with the previous clue because “he sleeps with the fishes” is a famous line from the film of “The Godfather”, which is about the Corleone family. Line can mean FAMILY but why “Corleone’s line” in particular?
24 TOD,O

11 Responses to “Independent 6871/Tees”

  1. Mick h says:

    I really enjoyed this, the BUN IN THE OVEN/BAKING link was neatly done and ‘birthplace of science’ was a great definition. Re 22dn, I the reference is just to ‘The Family’ as another anme for the mafia.

  2. conradcork says:

    3. Well you cock a gun before firing it. The question mark means it is meant to be a little wry.

    6. if you sling mud it is an unclean cast, arguably, so said to be unclean caste.

    22. I think Corleone links it to the previous clue, “He sleeps with the fish”. The clue does start with … after all.

  3. Al Streatfield says:

    Didn’t like this one- gave up over half the way through, without trying to finish it.

    Not enough cryptic indications in SPOONERISM one.

    GAM’s too obscure as a definition of whales for a daily puzzle, in my opinion.

    “He sleeps with the fishes” famous line from the Godfather? I’ve seen the film but don’t remember the line.

    Don’t like the TARA one- too difficult

    Don’t understand MUDSLINGER

    ETAGERES too obscure for a reversal in a daily puzzle.

  4. Tessio says:

    Here’s a memory-jogging link for you – although the clue is a DD in its own right:

  5. AMB says:

    I found one or two clues a little irritating, such as REPROACH and BAKING, although in general this was a cracking solve.

    The ‘spoonerism’, ‘bun in the oven’ and ‘sold down the river’ clues all raised a smile and, as opposed to the day’s offering in The Guardian, the clue-writing was clear and fair.

    Another very good puzzle from The Independent.

  6. petero says:

    It seems to me that 24A has another possible answer: torr (tor R, and Torr Vale, a historic mill in Derbyshire)

  7. Pedant says:

    But isn`t the Spoonerism of Shining Wit “Whining Sit”…or even “Wining Shit”?

    How can Whining Shit be justified?

  8. Allan_C says:

    A spoonerism can be the transposition of initial sounds, not necessarily of initial letters. Though in this case you have to accept that the ‘h’ in ‘whining’ is silent.

  9. Paul B says:

    W-hining and d-hining later, anyone?

  10. grahame says:

    just back from a tour of the west usa tour .guide- keith dalphin told us how warring american native tribes would sell their captives to slave traders down south .hence reference to ‘Betrayal ,even in the third world’
    Also the reference to Corleone is not a line from the film but simply to his’ line ‘, meaning his family. THE family. cheers, grahame

  11. grahame says:

    also throwing mud is casting something that will make you unclean

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