Comments on: Guardian 24,621 / Araucaria http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/ Never knowingly undersolved. Wed, 22 May 2013 20:05:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: smutchin http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68140 smutchin Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:48:10 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68140 OK, I suspect I shouldn’t really be doing this, but since I still have the gif on my hard disk, for today only, you can download it from here

]]> By: smutchin http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68139 smutchin Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:35:17 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68139 I think it might have been 12,973 by Armonie – which, alas, is no longer available on the FT website. But you can still read the fifteensquared blog about it here

]]> By: smutchin http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68136 smutchin Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:15:10 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68136 Derek – I don’t know if word count is a reliable measure of quality but as an amateur setter, I find that aiming to keep the word count down is a good way of enforcing discipline in clue writing. It’s far too easy to be waffly in clues. In my earliest efforts, I was getting averages of nearly 8! So I went back and rewrote some of the clues to be a bit snappier and I’m much happier with the results.

(By the way, for the purposes of analysis, where solutions are split over multiple lines in the grid, I count them as a single solution and a single clue. Don’t know what rules others apply.)

Stiofain – for my own efforts, I have a general rule that the number of words in the clue should be no more than the number of letters in the solution, and I’ll generally impose an absolute limit of 12 words regardless of solution length. However, I’m happy to break these rules occasionally if it’s too difficult to make the clue shorter while still making sense and/or I’ve come up with a nice bit of wordplay that I think justifies a longer clue.

But the occasional long clue is fine – it’s the average that matters. There was a recent Araucaria puzzle that included a 17-word clue but still kept the overall average down to well under 7. That’s class.

Paul commented on his site that he thought it would be very hard to make a well-formed puzzle with an average under 6. Well, there was an FT puzzle recently that had an average of 5.5! And it was all pretty soundly clued, as far as I can recall. I might see if I can dig it out and post a link if anyone’s interested.

]]> By: Tyro http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68069 Tyro Fri, 13 Feb 2009 01:22:45 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68069 I don’t understand word count – a good clue is a good clue, but if a particular competition has its own rules then fair enough. e.g. Complete this phrase in less than fifteen words I love fifteensquared because ….

]]> By: Eileen http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68055 Eileen Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:41:28 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68055 Hi Derek

I know – I did say earlier I was afraid to speak too soon but it’s nearly bedtime!

Re word count; I’m not really into this – I was just picking up on yesterday’s discussion. Yours seems fine to me. :-)

]]> By: Derek Lazenby http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68054 Derek Lazenby Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:33:39 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68054 I just worked out the average length for my humble effort for my railway mag. Is 6.9 OK then?

Careful what you say Eileen, somebody may say chop!

]]> By: Eileen http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68051 Eileen Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:23:00 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68051 Hi Stiofain

‘Sacrilege’, eh? That’s the second time today tat Araucaria has been ‘deified’!

Mark: I’m way up there with Araucaria’s admirers – have been for 30+ years – but to me he’s a hero, not a god, and it’s not blind hero-worship. I enjoy his puzzles so much that I put up with his quirky clues – and almost always delight in them – but the point about the age / long thing is that it’s not typical: Araucaria, Classicist that he is, has always been scrupulously grammatical.

But, sticking my neck out now, all in all, it seems to have been a good day, with practically everyone having enjoyed a good puzzle. Thanks for all the comments.

]]> By: stiofain_x http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68045 stiofain_x Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:01:57 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68045 Sacrilege, I spelt Araucaria wrong

]]> By: stiofain_x http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68044 stiofain_x Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:52:14 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68044 A very nice Auracaria today, I thought, with some lovely surfaces and some nice misdirection.
I also googled to find what museum directors Darwin had contretemps with and wondered how Uncle Toms Cabin could be made to fit in with the rest until The Lincoln penny dropped.
Re the clue length debate should the answer length be included in this incipient formula for the perfect clue in some way? And the grid used?
Stiofain

]]> By: muck http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/02/12/guardian-24621-araucaria/#comment-68032 muck Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:04:47 +0000 http://fifteensquared.net/?p=5580#comment-68032 I did know that today was a double bicentenary – I think I heard it on BBC Radio4 – so it wasn’t too difficult a puzzle. And most enjoyable. Thanks, Araucaria.

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