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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 24,645 (Paul)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Ralph G</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74645</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[re47, thanks Paul B for putting the flesh on the dry bones of a story I had hitherto.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re47, thanks Paul B for putting the flesh on the dry bones of a story I had hitherto.</p>
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		<title>By: mhl</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74269</link>
		<dc:creator>mhl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[A great story, thanks - I think Paul B is quoting from &quot;Dr. Bowdler&#039;s Legacy: A History of Expurgated Books in England and America&quot;, at least according to this Language Log post:

  http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001814.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great story, thanks &#8211; I think Paul B is quoting from &#8220;Dr. Bowdler&#8217;s Legacy: A History of Expurgated Books in England and America&#8221;, at least according to this Language Log post:</p>
<p>  <a href="http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001814.html" rel="nofollow">http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001814.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: steven</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74225</link>
		<dc:creator>steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Paul B, Nice comment.

Never Knowingly Undersolved!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul B, Nice comment.</p>
<p>Never Knowingly Undersolved!</p>
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		<title>By: InGrid</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74190</link>
		<dc:creator>InGrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[This entry is probably too late for anyone to see, but didn&#039;t the Guardian&#039;s insistence on disallowing female actors to be referred to as actresses cause a slight embarrassment when the obituary of a film director observed misleadingly that he was notorious for making a pass at every young actor appearing in his films...?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This entry is probably too late for anyone to see, but didn&#8217;t the Guardian&#8217;s insistence on disallowing female actors to be referred to as actresses cause a slight embarrassment when the obituary of a film director observed misleadingly that he was notorious for making a pass at every young actor appearing in his films&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: tuck</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74108</link>
		<dc:creator>tuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=6245#comment-74108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How sweet Paul B!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How sweet Paul B!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74104</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=6245#comment-74104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #44, if anyone really wants to know, yertiz: 

In 1841, Browning published the long dramatic poem Pippa Passes, now best known for the lines “God’s in His heaven/ All’s right with the world.” Toward the end of it, he sets up a kind of Gothic scene, and writes:

Then, owls and bats,
Cowls and twats,
Monks and nuns, in a cloister’s moods,
Adjourn to the oak-stump pantry!

The second of these lines created no stir at all, presumably because the middle class had truly forgotten the word “twat” (just as it had forgotten “quaint,” so that Marvell’s pun on the two meanings in “To His Coy Mistress” has fallen flat for six or eight generations now). 

A few scholars must have recognized the word, but any who did behaved like loyal subjects when the emperor wore his new clothes, and discreetly said nothing. No editor of Browning has ever expurgated the line, even when Rossetti was diligently cutting mere “womb” out of Whitman. 

The first response only came forty years later when the editors of the Oxford English Dictionary, collecting examples of usage, like Johnson before them, and interested to find a contemporary use of “twat,” wrote to Browning to ask in what sense he was using it. Browning is said to have written back that he used it to mean a piece of headgear for nuns, comparable to the cowls for monks he put in the same line. The editors are then supposed to have asked if he recalled where he had learned the word. Browning replied that he knew exactly. He had read widely in seventeenth-century literature in his youth, and in a broadside poem called “Vanity of Vanities”, published in 1659, he had found these lines, referring to an ambitious cleric:

They talk’t of his having a Cardinall’s Hat;
They’d send him as soon an Old Nun’s Twat.

If you are sufficiently delicate and sheltered, it is possible to take the last word as meaning something like a wimple, and Browning did. A fugitive and cloistered virtue can get into difficulties that even Milton didn’t think of. 

The line is thought by some to be from Vanity of Vanities: a Portrait to the Tune of the Jews Corant (a satirical ballad) by one Harry (or Sir Henry) Vane, 1660. Others, most likely right, assert that Sir Henry Vane is the subject (hence &quot;Portrait&quot;), and that he wouldn&#039;t have written such disparaging things about himself (of his father and him: &quot;The Devil no&#039;re see such two Harry&#039;s&quot;). 

So, an anonymous 17th-century religious-political song lyric - most plausibly - is your man.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #44, if anyone really wants to know, yertiz: </p>
<p>In 1841, Browning published the long dramatic poem Pippa Passes, now best known for the lines “God’s in His heaven/ All’s right with the world.” Toward the end of it, he sets up a kind of Gothic scene, and writes:</p>
<p>Then, owls and bats,<br />
Cowls and twats,<br />
Monks and nuns, in a cloister’s moods,<br />
Adjourn to the oak-stump pantry!</p>
<p>The second of these lines created no stir at all, presumably because the middle class had truly forgotten the word “twat” (just as it had forgotten “quaint,” so that Marvell’s pun on the two meanings in “To His Coy Mistress” has fallen flat for six or eight generations now). </p>
<p>A few scholars must have recognized the word, but any who did behaved like loyal subjects when the emperor wore his new clothes, and discreetly said nothing. No editor of Browning has ever expurgated the line, even when Rossetti was diligently cutting mere “womb” out of Whitman. </p>
<p>The first response only came forty years later when the editors of the Oxford English Dictionary, collecting examples of usage, like Johnson before them, and interested to find a contemporary use of “twat,” wrote to Browning to ask in what sense he was using it. Browning is said to have written back that he used it to mean a piece of headgear for nuns, comparable to the cowls for monks he put in the same line. The editors are then supposed to have asked if he recalled where he had learned the word. Browning replied that he knew exactly. He had read widely in seventeenth-century literature in his youth, and in a broadside poem called “Vanity of Vanities”, published in 1659, he had found these lines, referring to an ambitious cleric:</p>
<p>They talk’t of his having a Cardinall’s Hat;<br />
They’d send him as soon an Old Nun’s Twat.</p>
<p>If you are sufficiently delicate and sheltered, it is possible to take the last word as meaning something like a wimple, and Browning did. A fugitive and cloistered virtue can get into difficulties that even Milton didn’t think of. </p>
<p>The line is thought by some to be from Vanity of Vanities: a Portrait to the Tune of the Jews Corant (a satirical ballad) by one Harry (or Sir Henry) Vane, 1660. Others, most likely right, assert that Sir Henry Vane is the subject (hence &#8220;Portrait&#8221;), and that he wouldn&#8217;t have written such disparaging things about himself (of his father and him: &#8220;The Devil no&#8217;re see such two Harry&#8217;s&#8221;). </p>
<p>So, an anonymous 17th-century religious-political song lyric &#8211; most plausibly &#8211; is your man.</p>
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		<title>By: ray</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74085</link>
		<dc:creator>ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[After sevferal completions, this one caused me hours of mental torture - and I gave up with the bottom half mainly complete, but with only ECRU and TOMORROW in the top.  That&#039;l teach me to think I&#039;m starting to understand how to decode these!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After sevferal completions, this one caused me hours of mental torture &#8211; and I gave up with the bottom half mainly complete, but with only ECRU and TOMORROW in the top.  That&#8217;l teach me to think I&#8217;m starting to understand how to decode these!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Lazenby</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74082</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Lazenby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=6245#comment-74082</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So you are saying that Chambers has made a mistake? Where are the acolytes of the Holy Church Of Chambers? You know, the one&#039;s who ascribe Papal style infallibility to that work?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you are saying that Chambers has made a mistake? Where are the acolytes of the Holy Church Of Chambers? You know, the one&#8217;s who ascribe Papal style infallibility to that work?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74079</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I suppose PBE pretty much beat me to it, but I was going to mention that one of the definitions of TWAT in Chambers is &quot;mistakenly, part of a nun&#039;s dress (Browning)&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose PBE pretty much beat me to it, but I was going to mention that one of the definitions of TWAT in Chambers is &#8220;mistakenly, part of a nun&#8217;s dress (Browning)&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: PBE</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2009/03/12/guardian-24645-paul/#comment-74067</link>
		<dc:creator>PBE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Interesting that Browning should turn up twice in a day: the source of Eileen&#039;s psaltress, and the notable howler in Pippa Passes:

 Then owls and bats, cowls and twats,
 Monks and nuns in a cloister&#039;s moods,
 Adjourn to the oak-stump pantry!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that Browning should turn up twice in a day: the source of Eileen&#8217;s psaltress, and the notable howler in Pippa Passes:</p>
<p> Then owls and bats, cowls and twats,<br />
 Monks and nuns in a cloister&#8217;s moods,<br />
 Adjourn to the oak-stump pantry!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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