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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 24,910 / Rufus</title>
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	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Davy</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100531</link>
		<dc:creator>Davy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Eileen,

I must agree with Sil here in that I am more likely to finish a Paul or Araucaria than a Rufus. I failed today on SCALE which should have been obvious and LION which I found very cryptic. I rarely finish RUFUS but find him very entertaining which is the purpose of all this solving.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Eileen,</p>
<p>I must agree with Sil here in that I am more likely to finish a Paul or Araucaria than a Rufus. I failed today on SCALE which should have been obvious and LION which I found very cryptic. I rarely finish RUFUS but find him very entertaining which is the purpose of all this solving.</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100530</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #24:
Eileen, thank you for the nice words.
Indeed, cd’s are not my favourite crossword techniques.
I am not that bad in cluing myself (I think) but cd’s are just one or two steps too far 
for me most of the time.
Indeed, probably because of the language.
Even so, knowing that an ‘also-ran’ is ‘out of place’ on a track, this is a clue that doesn’t have much more to offer than just that. So, cryptic?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #24:<br />
Eileen, thank you for the nice words.<br />
Indeed, cd’s are not my favourite crossword techniques.<br />
I am not that bad in cluing myself (I think) but cd’s are just one or two steps too far<br />
for me most of the time.<br />
Indeed, probably because of the language.<br />
Even so, knowing that an ‘also-ran’ is ‘out of place’ on a track, this is a clue that doesn’t have much more to offer than just that. So, cryptic?</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100529</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #24:
Eileen, thank you for the nice words.
Indeed, cd&#039;s are not my favourite crossword techniques.
I am not that bad in cluing myself (I think) but cd&#039;s are just one or steps too far 
Indeed, probably because of the language.
Even so, knowing that an &#039;also-ran&#039; is &#039;out of place&#039; on a track, this is a clue that doesn&#039;t have much more to offer than just that. So, cryptic?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #24:<br />
Eileen, thank you for the nice words.<br />
Indeed, cd&#8217;s are not my favourite crossword techniques.<br />
I am not that bad in cluing myself (I think) but cd&#8217;s are just one or steps too far<br />
Indeed, probably because of the language.<br />
Even so, knowing that an &#8216;also-ran&#8217; is &#8216;out of place&#8217; on a track, this is a clue that doesn&#8217;t have much more to offer than just that. So, cryptic?</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100528</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Gareth, for your explanations.
Crosswords are really a Science, aren&#039;t they?
But for me (but perhaps not for Ximenes) a real &amp;Lit would have the definition as part of the construction (like Paul&#039;s &quot;Hood fortress, we gathered&quot; for &#039;Sherwood Forest&#039;).
This EMERITI clue is clearly divided in a definition part + a construction part. 
Both are only related by the surface reading.
Very nice, but for me not an &amp;Lit.
Indeed, more a Don Manley &quot;semi &amp;Lit&quot;, but maybe it is time to re-define an &amp;Lit 
as - what I said in #20 - a clue in which the definition is part of the construction. 
Looks reasonable to me. 
[Sorry to all of you who are Disciples of the X-Word ...]
(if you know what I mean - hugh potential for a great clue)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Gareth, for your explanations.<br />
Crosswords are really a Science, aren&#8217;t they?<br />
But for me (but perhaps not for Ximenes) a real &amp;Lit would have the definition as part of the construction (like Paul&#8217;s &#8220;Hood fortress, we gathered&#8221; for &#8216;Sherwood Forest&#8217;).<br />
This EMERITI clue is clearly divided in a definition part + a construction part.<br />
Both are only related by the surface reading.<br />
Very nice, but for me not an &amp;Lit.<br />
Indeed, more a Don Manley &#8220;semi &amp;Lit&#8221;, but maybe it is time to re-define an &amp;Lit<br />
as &#8211; what I said in #20 &#8211; a clue in which the definition is part of the construction.<br />
Looks reasonable to me.<br />
[Sorry to all of you who are Disciples of the X-Word ...]<br />
(if you know what I mean &#8211; hugh potential for a great clue)</p>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100527</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for all the comments. Sorry for the delayed response - I&#039;ve been out.

Sil, I&#039;ve often wondered, too, why you find Rufus so tricky, compared with some of the other more &#039;difficult&#039; setters.. it must be the number of cryptic definitions, which I suppose are bound to cause more problems for a person whose first language is not English - although I have said before there are many native English-speakers who don&#039;t have your command of the language!

Re &#039;also-ran&#039;: the cryptic aspect is &#039;out of place&#039;, since an also-ran is an athlete, or racehorse, who was &#039;unplaced&#039; [not 1st 2nd or 3rd.]

I said that PAEANS was &#039;not very cryptic&#039; - an understatement! [I did know the word, though.]

I thought someone might challenge EMERITI as &amp;lit, and I had some second thoughts myself. However, the Latin word means &#039;having earned by service&#039; and is the word used for a soldier who has served his time, although it does, of course, give us our word &#039;merit&#039;. I take your and Gareth&#039;s point about the construction.

Grumpy Andrew, thanks for your further comment. It looks as if you can perhaps hang on to your place for a while longer, Derek! :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the comments. Sorry for the delayed response &#8211; I&#8217;ve been out.</p>
<p>Sil, I&#8217;ve often wondered, too, why you find Rufus so tricky, compared with some of the other more &#8216;difficult&#8217; setters.. it must be the number of cryptic definitions, which I suppose are bound to cause more problems for a person whose first language is not English &#8211; although I have said before there are many native English-speakers who don&#8217;t have your command of the language!</p>
<p>Re &#8216;also-ran&#8217;: the cryptic aspect is &#8216;out of place&#8217;, since an also-ran is an athlete, or racehorse, who was &#8216;unplaced&#8217; [not 1st 2nd or 3rd.]</p>
<p>I said that PAEANS was &#8216;not very cryptic&#8217; &#8211; an understatement! [I did know the word, though.]</p>
<p>I thought someone might challenge EMERITI as &amp;lit, and I had some second thoughts myself. However, the Latin word means &#8216;having earned by service&#8217; and is the word used for a soldier who has served his time, although it does, of course, give us our word &#8216;merit&#8217;. I take your and Gareth&#8217;s point about the construction.</p>
<p>Grumpy Andrew, thanks for your further comment. It looks as if you can perhaps hang on to your place for a while longer, Derek! <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Radler</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100526</link>
		<dc:creator>Radler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sil – I&#039;m sure the compilers also wish that Emma didn&#039;t occur so often, but it&#039;s one of those words that keeps being needed to fill the grid.  I think Rufus maintains a database of his clues and solutions.  Perhaps he could give us some figures for how often he&#039;s clued this word and maybe some of the other common or not so common ones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sil – I&#8217;m sure the compilers also wish that Emma didn&#8217;t occur so often, but it&#8217;s one of those words that keeps being needed to fill the grid.  I think Rufus maintains a database of his clues and solutions.  Perhaps he could give us some figures for how often he&#8217;s clued this word and maybe some of the other common or not so common ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth Rees</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100525</link>
		<dc:creator>Gareth Rees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;you call 6d an &amp;Lit. I don’t agree with that&lt;/i&gt;

Ximenes described this type of clue — brief definition plus wordplay but where the whole clue can be read as an extended definition — as an &quot;offshoot&quot; of the &amp;lit &quot;to which I apply, for convenience, the same name&quot; (&lt;cite&gt;Ximenes on the Art of the Crossword&lt;/cite&gt;).

Don Manley calls it a &quot;semi &amp;lit&quot; to distinguish it from a &quot;true &amp;lit&quot; (&lt;cite&gt;Chambers Crossword Manual&lt;/cite&gt;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>you call 6d an &amp;Lit. I don’t agree with that</i></p>
<p>Ximenes described this type of clue — brief definition plus wordplay but where the whole clue can be read as an extended definition — as an &#8220;offshoot&#8221; of the &amp;lit &#8220;to which I apply, for convenience, the same name&#8221; (<cite>Ximenes on the Art of the Crossword</cite>).</p>
<p>Don Manley calls it a &#8220;semi &amp;lit&#8221; to distinguish it from a &#8220;true &amp;lit&#8221; (<cite>Chambers Crossword Manual</cite>).</p>
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		<title>By: Jerb</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100524</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Was PAEANS anything other than a completely straight definition, or am I missing something?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was PAEANS anything other than a completely straight definition, or am I missing something?</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100523</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thx, Eileen, for your fine blog (you are doing quite a lot of them these days).

We have a problem.
Why can&#039;t we hardly finish a Rufus, while usually Paul or Araucaria can&#039;t beat us?

Today we rushed through the bottom half of the grid in what must be a World Record (true, a bit exaggerated), but it went wrong in the NW part. HEN RUN we didn&#039;t get, 
but indeed, a nice cd. Never thought of that. Easy when you know, isn&#039;t it?
We had never heard of ALSO-RAN (but I am always thankful when I&#039;ve learned some new words after solving a crossword) and if this is a cd, which it surely is, I don&#039;t really get it (even if I know (now) what an &#039;also-ran&#039; is).
And PAEANS stumped us. Again, haven&#039;t heard of it, and not really a good clue.
Like cholecyst (#4) I think EMMA must be banned unless someone clues it more inventively (like, as you said, Eileen, indeed happened recently). 
We didn&#039;t like 6ac mainly because both Emmas here are female names - hardly a dd.
Eileen, in your blog you call 6d an &amp;Lit. I don&#039;t agree with that.
The definition is &#039;Professors discharged&#039; and this is not part of the construction. 
And though I like the surface of the clue, there is the fact that &#039;merit&#039; is the English version of the Latin &#039;meritus&#039;, which is part of the word &#039;emeritus&#039;, so the &#039;merit&#039; here is not completely cryptic. So-so, I would say.

But apart from these minor critical notes, a fine crossword - easy at places, unsolvable at other places (that is, for us ....).

But the most important News of the Day is, of course, that Grumpy Andrew is not always Grumpy anymore !!  :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thx, Eileen, for your fine blog (you are doing quite a lot of them these days).</p>
<p>We have a problem.<br />
Why can&#8217;t we hardly finish a Rufus, while usually Paul or Araucaria can&#8217;t beat us?</p>
<p>Today we rushed through the bottom half of the grid in what must be a World Record (true, a bit exaggerated), but it went wrong in the NW part. HEN RUN we didn&#8217;t get,<br />
but indeed, a nice cd. Never thought of that. Easy when you know, isn&#8217;t it?<br />
We had never heard of ALSO-RAN (but I am always thankful when I&#8217;ve learned some new words after solving a crossword) and if this is a cd, which it surely is, I don&#8217;t really get it (even if I know (now) what an &#8216;also-ran&#8217; is).<br />
And PAEANS stumped us. Again, haven&#8217;t heard of it, and not really a good clue.<br />
Like cholecyst (#4) I think EMMA must be banned unless someone clues it more inventively (like, as you said, Eileen, indeed happened recently).<br />
We didn&#8217;t like 6ac mainly because both Emmas here are female names &#8211; hardly a dd.<br />
Eileen, in your blog you call 6d an &amp;Lit. I don&#8217;t agree with that.<br />
The definition is &#8216;Professors discharged&#8217; and this is not part of the construction.<br />
And though I like the surface of the clue, there is the fact that &#8216;merit&#8217; is the English version of the Latin &#8216;meritus&#8217;, which is part of the word &#8216;emeritus&#8217;, so the &#8216;merit&#8217; here is not completely cryptic. So-so, I would say.</p>
<p>But apart from these minor critical notes, a fine crossword &#8211; easy at places, unsolvable at other places (that is, for us &#8230;.).</p>
<p>But the most important News of the Day is, of course, that Grumpy Andrew is not always Grumpy anymore !!  <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/01/18/guardian-24910-rufus/#comment-100522</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=14324#comment-100522</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eileen, you&#039;re right I&#039;ve moaned about others, but enjoyed Araucaria on Saturday.
Didn&#039;t come close to finishing, but enough in there to make me feel that I&#039;m not a total stranger to cryptic crosswords.
Maybe it was one of his more merciful puzzles.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eileen, you&#8217;re right I&#8217;ve moaned about others, but enjoyed Araucaria on Saturday.<br />
Didn&#8217;t come close to finishing, but enough in there to make me feel that I&#8217;m not a total stranger to cryptic crosswords.<br />
Maybe it was one of his more merciful puzzles.</p>
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