Comments on: Guardian 24914 / Araucaria

By: Sylvia

Sylvia — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:36:33 +0000

Really struggled with this one although by my favourite compiler. Completed the top half and then got stuck for ages before deciding to give up. As soon as I got to that point the remainder suddenly started to make sense – it would have helped if I had solved ‘Shakespeare’ earlier, of course. It’s strange how conceding defeat suddenly produces a way of completing the grid, as has happened to me several times before. Anyone else had this experience?

And Araucaria is still The Master for me.

By: Monica M

Monica M — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 04:32:52 +0000

Re: 9ac … for what it’s worth … perhaps there is an allusion to another saying “cheap at half the price” 1/2 BARRED is Bar

By: Rob

Rob — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:45:56 +0000

Hi Sil Re: #55

If you’re still thinking about the clue from Jerb then I think the solution is more likely to include – ‘A’, ‘of’ & ‘two’ – hope this helps!!

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:13:39 +0000

Jerb (#54), let’s put it this way:
I think we are indeed looking at crosswords from a slightly different perspective
(as in the case of Oo!, which is even nothing, um, twice … ).
But we both enjoy crosswords, and that’s by far the most important thing.

And let me think about that Paul clue for a while (the solution probably contains the words “A”, “of” and “the” – am I right?).

By: Jerb

Jerb — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 15:51:32 +0000

Sil, I’ve always taken it to be the case that the odd bit of “connective tissue” (as they say in the sausage-making trade) might crop up. The occasional “to”, “with”, or “on” between definition and wordplay I can happily ignore. In my mind this doesn’t make the clue inaccurate but adds to the fun of misdirection.

I think a clue such as “Oo” or “Gegs” will normally be signposted by a ! or ? to indicate that there’s no definition. I personally love this type of clue because in my experience they give you more of a “Eureka moment” buzz that the regular round of charades, anags and dds.

I’ll always remember the warm glow I got when working out my first of these (from Paul) a few years ago: “Foot/ball? (1, 4, 2, 3, 6)”

As Alex at #51 points out, it’s all down to your perspective.

Sil, I think CROSSKEYS is one of those tripartite clues which are a trademark of Araucaria’s.
1. Charade of CROSS + KEYS (go over + piano)
2. St Peter’s pub (the symbolism, and the fact that he often appears on the sign)
3. The town.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:50:05 +0000

Re #44 (Mr Beaver) & #50 (Jerb): it took a while, but I got it now. You are right about BARGAIN – this is just it.

And Jerb, I do like playfulness and lightness and naughtiness (therefore I will stick to The Guardian, if you don’t mind), but I am not very keen on avoidable imprecision and the use of superfluous words that could be misleading.
People might say, this is Crosswordland where these things happen.
I am surely not one of those who, as you call it, “are obsessed by so-called rules”, and I can stretch things quite far, but when “Oo!” comes along I think that’s beyond the limit. It is common rule that clues should contain a (kind of) definition, but in this situation there’s nothing (even Oo! is nothing). Don’t get me wrong, I do understand why so many people enjoy the fun of it, but I don’t think Araucaria should have done this.
When in my posts I ask questions about solutions (like BARGAIN) or the presence of certain words (like ‘on’ or ‘by’), it is because I want to understand why they there.
Maybe that’s basically it, I am not just interested in crosswords as a pastime (BTW, I love solving and the challenge going with it) but also in how things work from a setter’s point of view.

By: Mr DNA

Mr DNA — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:33:32 +0000

Rob (#33), Just as an aside: I think it's safe to say that the Guardian's typeface wouldn't be Times Roman!

By: Alex

Alex — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 11:24:17 +0000

As ever, whether some of these clues were seen as fair, obscure or otherwise depends on your prespective. I was attempting this one with the help of my partner who is a welsh medieval historian – so crosskeys and accidie (which features in chaucer) were relatively straightforward and went in early, whereas we struggled with some that others no doubt found easy. Overall I thought this was tough but enjoyable.

By: Jerb

Jerb — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 10:10:09 +0000

Mr Beaver is right re SWAN and BARRED.

Don’t understand why people here are obsessed by so-called “rules” for these crosswords. If you don’t like the playfulness, imprecision and lightness of the graun, stick to the Times!

By: Rob

Rob — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:59:17 +0000

Mr Beaver – #44 I can see where you’re coming from: Pole with pale = SWAN, but then ‘on river’ as the definition? Could be but very vague IMHO! Prefer S with ‘wan on’ where the definition is just “river.” It might be obscure to you as are many of Araucaria’s clues to many of us, but The Swan river is well known to beer drinkers because The Swan Brewery, one of if not the oldest in Oz, was established on the bank of said river, hence its name.
According to my latest info:
The Cross Keys is the 22nd most popular pub name in the UK; interestingly(?) The Swan is the 7th most popular!!
The Red Lion is still No. 1 – for which we can thank King James I (VI of Scotland.)