Never knowingly undersolved.

Guardian 24,918 – Logodaedalus

Posted by manehi on January 27th, 2010


Got through this one fairly quickly. Noticed on writing it up that the charade pieces for 11ac were all recycled from other clues…

1 IN ATTENDANCE =”here”. (ain’t)* + TEN=”five couples” + DANCE=”knees-up”
8 INGESTS IS around (gents)*
9 IMPLIED I=”one” + MP + LIED=”German song”
11 VANILLA VAN (and 7dn) + I=one (8,25ac) + rev(ALL) (19dn)
12 STRINGS ST[one] + RINGS=gangs/mobs
13 NIECE Hidden in “condemnatioN IE CEnsure”
14 INSULTING IN SUING around LT=lieutenant
16 INSOMNIAC IN + (masonic)*
19 RIFLE double def.
21 KINDRED KIND=”warm” + RED=”claret, perhaps”
23 NOSTRUM NO + ST(=saint) + RUM=spirit
25 JILLIAN JAN[uary] around ILL + I=one
1 INGENUE IN + GEN[eral] + U[s]E
2 ABSOLVE AB=sailor + SOLE=fish around V=five
3 TOSCANINI (inactions)*
4 NAILS N[orth] and S[outh] are the two directions, around AIL
5 APPAREL A=one + (paper)* + L[eft]
7 RIP VAN WINKLE RIP=tear=”rent” + VAN + WINKLE.
10 DISAGREEMENT (it seem danger)*
15 SECOND JOB referring to the much-tested Old Testament figure.
17 SINCERE S[unday] + IN + CE + RE=”religious education”
18 MORDANT MO=”medical officer” + rev(DR) + ANT[hea]
19 ROSELLA an Australian Parrot [wiki], ROSE + rev(all)
20 FOREIGN O=”ring” inside (finger)*
22 DODGE (eg odd)*

35 Responses to “Guardian 24,918 – Logodaedalus”

  1. John Appleton says:

    Thanks Manehi. I too didn’t struggle much with this. Wasn’t sure about clothes as an anagram indicator for 16a (might somebody be able to explain this?), nor about 15d being one word (9) rather than two (6,3) – that was in the paper version at least.

  2. mike says:

    Many thanks, Manehi. I got through this very quickly too but still found it enjoyable. This variety of difficulty and style is what is so great about Guardian crosswords.

  3. manehi says:

    John – 15 was (6,3) in the online version. I meant to make some comment about “clothes” but forgot – I wondered if it had originally been “dress”, which I’ve seen as an anagrind before, but clashed with 5dn’s definition.

  4. cholecyst says:

    Thanks Manehi. Yesterday’s Clerihews combined with today’s straightforward puzzle inspired the following.

    Mazy Logodaedalus
    Causes very little fuss to us.
    And Rufus rarely ever tests
    Solvers’ patience with his jests.

    But the older Araucaria gets
    The bolder clues The Master sets.
    Ximenean rules are not for him.
    He bends the laws to suit his whim.

    Has there ever been a better
    Guardian cryptic crossword setter?

    More names could be added to this list.
    Step forward now Enigmatist,
    Brendan, Gordius, Shed and Auster
    Join Puck and Pasquale in the cluster.

    Brummie, Rover, Chifonie, Orlando
    Arachne, Boatman, Janus join the band.O!
    Then there’s the one some solvers dread:
    The wily maestro old Azed.

    But who’s the one that pleases most of all?
    It is the Young Pretender Paul!

  5. sandra says:

    many thanks manehi.

    john appleton: the online version has 6,3 for for 15d. the graun gremlin strikes again. i read clothes in 16a as dress, as in dressing a crab, but only after solving the clue! maybe others will have more to contribute to that, as it seems somewhat unsatisfactory.

    i found this one pretty easy, although enjoyable. but i cannot see a definition for 1a.however, the clue was pretty straightforward so it didn’t matter much. can’t help wondering if i am missing something though. 15d raised a smile.

  6. John says:

    Sandra. The definition in 1 ac is “here” = IN ATTENDANCE.

  7. Ian says:

    Thanks for the blog manehi

    30’ spent quite pleasantly with a characteristically straightforward Logodaedalus.
    No nits to pick anywhere.

    Well done cholecyst!!!!!

  8. Dave Ellison says:

    Thanks, manehi.

    Quite easy (20 mins today) as L. usually is, but, none the less, enjoyable.

    1a I took the definition to be HERE. I thought this was a fine clue.

    26a the last to go in.

    I wasn’t sure about the LARGE in 19a; what was it for?

  9. Val says:

    Thanks, manehi.

    Isn’t 15d unsatisfactory? If the definition is “moonlighting” then that doesn’t give SECOND JOB, but rather [has] SECOND JOB. I did the paper version with the incorrect letter count so was already a little annoyed with this one.

  10. liz says:

    Thanks, manehi. I found this really easy and finished very fast.

    The pdf version of 15dn also had an incorrect letter count.

    A couple of niggles. Like Val, I wasn’t happy with ‘second job’ equating to ‘moonlighting’.
    I also thought ‘brain’ for ‘understanding’ wasn’t quite right either. But maybe I’m just being a bit picky today :-)

  11. Tom Hutton says:

    I thought rings was pretty thin for mobs. You might just get away with it for gangs.

    A nice straightforward crossword otherwise though I had never heard a rosella.

  12. sandra says:

    thanks john and dave ellison. thought i must be missing something, and i was. i took “knees up here” to be “dance”. silly me!

  13. Ralph G says:

    19d ROSELLA: originally ‘rosehiller’ because first observed at Rose Hill near Sydney. Possibly, the Rose Hill connection was lost to common knowledge and ‘rosella’ had an appropriate Latinate sound. Perhaps botanists could come up with similar examples of polite ‘corruption’.

  14. Neil says:

    I mustn’t pick nits after my recent outburst. But these, below, seem to be just glaring errors in an otherwise undemanding puzzle.

    11ac: how can “vanilla”, a flavouring, be “plain”?
    16ac: [@1, @3, @5, above] “dress” works and would be a far more proper anagrind than clothes surely?
    19ac: [@8, above] the “rifle” falls into the smallarms (portable) category. Hardly “large” then, like cannon or Bertha say!

    !5d:[@3, @5, above] had (9) in the PDF, which I worked from, so was thrown for a little while. Checking subsequently, both the interactive and print versions had (6,3). Val @9 says the Newspaper was wrong too.

  15. Harris says:

    Re. Neil’s first comment,

    The last entry for ‘vanilla’ in the online OED (4C) gives ‘plain, basic, conventional’. Originally with reference to sexual activity, it notes.

  16. Shirley says:

    Neil – 11AC don’t know about the sexual connotation! Most people call a vanilla icecream a plain one as opposed to a flavoured one, fogetting that vanilla is a flavour as well.

  17. cholecyst says:

    Vanilla. And Chambers gives it meaning plain, but as example of computer slang. That’s certainly how I used to use it. But it reminds me that as a child, vanilla ice creams tasted of nothing but sugar. I thought for years, until I actually tasted vanilla, which has quite a strong flavour, that vanilla meant white!

  18. Neil says:

    Looks like I should withdraw my complaint about vanilla then – reluctantly though! (And I did check Chambers). Is it something like asking for plain crisps when that actually means ready-salted these days. (Oh, for that little screw of blue paper!).

  19. John says:

    Plain vanilla is quite common American slang for ordinary, regular, unadorned.

  20. Eileen says:

    I’ve been out all day but did the puzzle before leaving, having resolved to follow IanN14’s Mum’s ‘nil nisi bonum’ precept.

    However, since Neil’s nit-picking today, I’ll share all his reservations [plus why the ‘must’ in 1ac?] – and plus ‘clothes’ as anagram indicator.

    As for sexual connatations for vanilla – well! I’m with Shirley and Cholecyst [and thanks for the verses!]: to me, ‘vanilla’ always simply meant the plain stripe in a Neapolitan ice cream. I was quite grown up before I knew it had a flavour of its own. [I didn’t like it as a clue, though.]
    Manehi, [thanks for the blog!] I wasn’t sure whether your comment re the recycling in this clue was a commendation or the opposite! :-)

  21. slipstream says:

    Yaaayy! My first clean solution, after about a year and a half of attempting Guardian cryptics! Maybe I’ll get my next one in . . . 2011.

  22. Paul B says:

    I’d thought vanilla = boring, as in boring ice cream. Much better with a 99 I reckon. But that moonlighting: ‘having second job’ at least? Like wot we do innit.

  23. Eileen says:

    Sorry, Neil, my comment 20, [at least I got your name right today :-) ] you’d already included ‘clothes’.

  24. morpheus says:

    vanilla is often used to mean plain in financing. eg a vanilla option would mean a basic option to buy or sell.

    nice couplets Cholecyst. very Rupert the Bear I thought. (When did he last appear in a Guardian crossword I wonder?)

  25. Eileen says:


    9h June 2009: ‘Children’s character sees rugby forward Jack tacling cup-holder [6,3,4]. Paul, 24,721.

  26. mhl says:

    Thanks for the post, manehi – I thought this was a fun and quick solve, bar the irritating error with the enumeration of SECOND JOB. (Also, surely “moonlighting” is “working / having a second job” anyway.)

    I’m not saying that I’d use it as an anagram indicator myself, but I thought “clothes” was meant to be read as “hides”, i.e. the anagram fodder conceals the word.

    slipstream: congratulations, hope there’s many more to come before then :)

    cholecyst: very nice :)

  27. Eileen says:

    Sorry, ‘tackling’, of course, and ‘cup holder’ was not hyphenated [but it makes no difference! ;-) ]

  28. IanN14 says:

    Yeah, what Eileen says @ 20.
    However, sorry, Ian @ 7, seems like there are quite a few nits (already mentioned).
    And how about 2d? Why “catching”?….
    Sorry…. sorry, I know nit-picking’s not good (really I do).
    …I’ll leave it to the grown-ups.

    (But I didn’t mind “vanilla” so much).

  29. sandra says:

    slipstream #21 well done – hope it’s the first completion of many.

  30. rrc says:

    congratulations cholecyst on the poem brilliant, I wish I could do something similar. crossword today very straightword and well clued so absolutely no grumbles

  31. Neil says:

    #28, IanN14: so, though my previous was such a late contribution (about the picking of nits) somebody was still paying attention. Seems my rant may have struck home in a few quarters though. Litres of Bells were on offer locally. Seems I may have already been forgiven. There are few later-comers here than I am, so most of you won’t know what I’m on about. Good!

  32. IanN14 says:

    Sorry, I wasn’t having a go…
    I just get a bit fed up with people complaining when others point out errors in clues.
    They’re very rarely “(mis)identified”.
    Just think of it as being like seeing a glaring anachronism in a film or something… You’d want to point it out?
    It’s not meant to be taken seriously, it’s partly, in its own way, an encouragement to the setters who always get it right. (Do you ever check the Independent section of this site?)
    By the way, erm… you do realise these comments are available for all to see for ages afterwards?

  33. Neil says:

    Thanks IanN14.

    I didn’t think you were ‘having a go’. Rather, the opposite.

    Yes, I do realise that. Uncomfortably. Must be more circumspect.

  34. JimboNWUK says:

    Speaking of late-comers, I often don’t read one day’s comments until the following day and wonder whether it is worth contributing as there is a shiny new puzzle to dissect that everyone will be concentrating on. I didn’t feel the need to comment on this puzzle as I knew everyone would pile in about the (6,3) mistake on 15d but was surprised at no-one complaining about the lack of a hyphen (7-5 rather than 12) in 26a.

    My main reason for writing a comment though was morpheus at #24 who got me wondering whether there is a grammatical term for using the name of a person or character as an adjective (“very Rupert the Bear”) and if so what it was…

  35. mhl says:

    Oops, apologies for duplicating three earlier comments on “having a second job” – I must have been very tired yesterday, since I promise I did read over everything above…

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