Never knowingly undersolved.

Guardian 25090 by Logodaedalus

Posted by Handel on August 16th, 2010


A Monday and no Rufus! A good mixture of clues from Logodaedalus made this an enjoyable start to the week, and there were no naval references to throw us, which made a change. The top left hand corner was the last to go in, and we took longer than we should have done on the longer clues around the edge of the grid. One unresolved clue: 25ac.


1. COUNTER MEASURE a straightforward charade, but we didn’t see this until pretty much everything else was in place


9. UMPIRAGE (ie a grump)*


12. R(A M.P.)AGE

13. RECTO(r) as in recto and verso


17. OVERSEERS ‘verse’ inside an anagram of ‘rose’

20. THE FT

21. SIPHONS ‘hip’ anagramised inside ‘sons’


25. ET CETERA we don’t quite understand how this works: ‘Last of all, the rest may help you”

26. ALONE (leona)*

27. HAVE IT BOTH WAYS cryptic definition. Again, this didn’t go in until late in the solve


1. CHARTER HOUSE another charade that took a long time for us to twig

2. UNCLE reference to pawn brokers being known as ‘uncles’

3. TETRAGONS (argos tent)*

4. RHUBARB cryptic definition, to create crowd noise, actors are encouraged to say ‘rhubarb rhubarb’

5. EMPEROR double definition, Beethoven’s Piano concerto number five in E flat major is known as the ‘Emperor concerto’


7. RIGMAROLE (a girl more)*


14. CLEOPATRA (a late crop)*

16. AUTO  G.R.  A.P.H

18. EA SIEST(a)

19. STIFADO (do I fast)* Couldn’t find this in our dictionary (Chambers 2006)

22. O.B.E SE(en)

24. A R O MA

47 Responses to “Guardian 25090 by Logodaedalus”

  1. Myrvin says:

    Thank you Handel.
    I hoped you would know about 25, ‘cos I don’t either. ‘The rest’ seems to be the def,. but it’s in the middle.
    I thought there weren’t any cds, but then I didn’t know all the explanations. I think 27 does have two parts to it: if you 25 then you are likely to win; if you choose left or right then you 25.

  2. Myrvin says:

    … sorry, the last two 25s should have been 27.

  3. Myrvin says:

    The OED has “A Greek dish of meat stewed with onions and other vegetables, esp. tomatoes” for STIFADO.

  4. Myrvin says:

    I seem to have taken over here – sorry. I have to go out.
    For RHUBARB, there are two parts as well. ‘edible stalks’ and ‘muttering on stage’. What is odd is that I think it should be :
    Muttered repeatedly on stage about edible stalks.
    I’ll go away now.

  5. Bryan says:

    Many thanks Handel I enjoyed this but I still cannot fathom out 25a.

    With luck, Logo may soon appear to explain that it’s simply another Grauniad typo? Or whatever.

  6. JohnR says:

    25ac. How about: “Last of all” is the def, and the clue “the rest” may help you to solve it?

  7. tupu says:

    Thanks Handel

    A bit run of the mill? But not too taxing for (for me) an early start.
    I was not wholly convinced by some of the cluing. e.g. 4d (about?) 27d (a good anagram but the definition feels odd) and 25a (as were others).
    I took it that this last might be a double offering. It means ‘and the rest’ of course but there is also a sense that you have reached the end of the list (so last?). But…

  8. Myrvin says:

    JohnR. Brave try, but etc doesn’t mean ‘last of all’.
    I thought the last two letters of ‘the rest’ were ET, but then I faded out.

  9. Kathryn's Dad says:

    Thanks, Handel. A pleasing puzzle with a good variety of clues which I enjoyed. I too am struggling to understand 25ac.

  10. tupu says:

    Perhaps there’s even something in Myrvin’s typo?? If 25 is a sort of double def. you can ‘have it both ways’?

  11. KB Pike says:

    Re 25a: et cetera is Latin for “and the rest”.
    etc is customarily “last of all” in, eg, a list when you’ve run out of items/names to cite.
    Hope this helps.

  12. Roger says:

    I read 25a much the same as you, KBP @11 … and if the list is long, then one’s probably glad of ‘the rest’.

  13. Bryan says:

    Thanks KB Pike @ 11 – By George you’ve got it!

  14. Stella Heath says:

    Thanks, Handel.

    You got there before me, KBP. That’s the way I understood it.

    The one I couldn’t parse was 23a – ‘for this stylish jar’? I can see that ‘jar’ can be ‘grate’, but where does ‘in’ come from?

    Did anyone else think ‘siphon’ should be spelt with a ‘y’?

  15. Myrvin says:

    23a. IN = fashionable (stylish); GRATE is TO jar.
    SIPHON is the first spelling in Chambers

  16. Bryan says:

    Stella @ 14

    Re 23a In = Fashionable or Stylish.

    Siphon is perfectly OK by me.

  17. Bryan says:

    Oops, I’d completely forgotten that I was encroaching on Myrvin’s territory.

  18. Myrvin says:

    Yes Bryan. You get your own blog site.

  19. liz says:

    Thanks, Handel. 25ac puzzled me too. My last was BARCAROLE, new one to me.

  20. tupu says:

    Hi KBP @11, Roger @12, Bryan@13 and Stella H
    :) Glad we agree. Cf tupu @7 :)

  21. Eileen says:

    Hi Liz

    The only BARCAROLE I know [and I’d have spelt it with a double ‘L’] is this one – I bet you know it, too, once it gets started!

  22. Derek Lazenby says:

    Strange puzzle. Started out thinking it was hard, then suddenly realised I’d done quite a lot in not much time, then hit a brick wall that I wouldn’t have got through without extensive gadget usage.

    The GWR thought it was spelt Siphon too…

    Eileen – quite. And thank you for the pleasant interlude to typing at this infernal box!

  23. Myrvin says:

    KBP @11, Roger @12, Bryan@13 and Stella H @14 tupu @7 – I don’t agree. I think 25 is just a bad clue.

  24. tupu says:


    You may well be right – it is ceratinly not a great one. Hence my ‘But….’ @7

  25. Myrvin says:

    By the way. 18d. When did EA become = each? I know it says ‘unfinished’, but that appears to refer to SIESTA with the A missing. Or else, SIESTA is ‘most’ of the word. So ‘most’ refers to that, and also to ‘most comfortable’ I am not comfortabe with that.

  26. tupu says:

    Hi Myrvin

    Concise Oxford gives ea. = each. Chambers doesn’t and nor does OED.

  27. Stella Heath says:

    I don’t know when, Myrvyn, but if ever you go to a farmer’s market, you’ll find some things are sold by the kilo/lb., and some are so much ‘ea.’

    Ok, you all, I’ve looked it up in Chambers, which has ‘Syphon’ – same as ‘siphon’.

    I knew the Barcarole as one of the first pieces I learnt to play on the fiddle, just as I remember a certain minuet in G as one of the few I learnt on the piano.

  28. Ostrakon says:

    The 2008 Chambers, the latest I think, gives ea. = each so I think the clue, as written, is perfectly reasonable and permissible given that most compilers seem to use/reference Chambers in their setting.

  29. Eileen says:


    Chambers [11th] does! [And so does Collins.]

    I’ve seen ‘ea.’ as in Stella’s example for as long as I can remember.

  30. Eileen says:

    Sorry, Ostrakon -crossed in the post!

  31. Myrvin says:

    Well done Ostrakon. Who has the latest book then? Not me or tupu.
    SOED doesn’t have it, but the New Oxford English does, and it cites labels for clothes etc. “T shirts £3 ea.”. Thank you Stella.

  32. Martin H says:

    Quick mechanical solve with only THEFT to smile at. 2,4,8 just bad – uncle needs burying, and Sandy, Ian, Hamish and the rest should have got thoroughly fed up with being seen at Ascot – 16 and 25 clumsy.

    Myrvin. I’ve seen ‘ea’ used to mean ‘each’ before the price on product labels in shops.

  33. liz says:

    Eileen @ 27. Thanks for the link! Yes, I did know the piece, but not the name! Lovely to be reminded of it…

  34. don says:

    #31 Myrvin – Help! Where can I get shirts for £3 each?

    Is anyone else in a ‘rant’ about an MP in 12 across? I am, because it meant I failed to get 10 down.

    This blog was a relief – with ‘stifado’ not being in my Chambers either and all the moans and groans etc., about ‘and so on’, I’m not worried about missing out on 19 and 25.

  35. tupu says:

    HI Eileen and Ostrakon

    Thanks. I only checked when Myrvin raised the point, since the answer to the clue was pretty obvious. I’ll have to make do with my older edition of Chambers for the time being. At over £20 ea. I’ll need a stronger reason than that to upgrade it!

  36. Bryan says:

    Don @ 34

    I recently bought 2 shirts for £5 but, nevertheless, you are right, these days you can only ‘Buy One Get One Free (BOGOF)’ or – like me – buy ‘2 for a Fiver’.

  37. Myrvin says:

    tupu. Perhaps they could give away a free T shirt with ea. one.

  38. Gerry says:

    I only guessed ar stifado, the rest wasn’t too bad.

  39. Davy says:

    Thanks Handel,

    I quite enjoyed this and my opinion of Logodaedalus has not changed since his last offering on 23 April 2010.
    If this had been published yesterday under the banner of Everyman, I don’t think anyone would have noticed.
    The clueing style, the grid, four long answers though not anagrams – are all similar to Everyman.

    The last two to go in were RHUBARB (not a brilliantly worded clue) and BARCAROLE which can be spelt with one or two ‘L’s apparently. Like most others, I didn’t understand ET CETERA but KB Pike’s explanation seems the most plausible.

  40. Carrots says:

    Inspired by Logo I`ve enjoyed my version of Stifado for supper. Lamb substituted for Goat, Passata for whole tomatoes and baby redskins for shallots. Juice of a lemon and black olives are the secret ingredients…otherwise follow any of the recipes google offers and cook to death. Puzzle was a bit loopy but OK.

  41. Scarpia says:

    Thanks Handel.
    Fairly easy puzzle I thought with only STIFADO and ET CETERA causing any problems.KBPike’s explanation @11 seems right to me and STIFADO was the only possible answer with check letters in place.
    Thanks for the link Eileen @21, it is a lovely piece of music which,strangely,is more well known as an instrumental piece(or piano transcription),rather than a duet for soprano/mezzo.I love the vocal version and,even though she’s past her prime in the clip La Stupenda still gives a great performance!

  42. tupu says:

    Hi Handel et al
    Help please. As I implied earlier I am puzzled how KBPike’s comment @11 says anything substantively different from my own earlier one @7 (lightheatedly added to @ 10). Am I missing something?

  43. Scarpia says:

    Hi tupu,
    You are right, your comment @7 is basically the same as KBPike’s.Not sure how I missed it on first read through.I think maybe,as I was late looking in yesterday and 40 comments were already posted,I skimmed through too quickly – apologies!

  44. tupu says:

    Hi Scarpia
    Many thanks. One sometimes feels a bit invisible – :)though that’s not always a bad thing. KBP addressed the one issue very clearly and there is probably a lesson there.

  45. Roger says:

    Sorry if you feel hard done by, tupu @ 42 ~ no slight intended on my part. The wording @ 11 regarding this damn clue just seemed to resonated more with me at the time.

    But I do know how it is. You put your (hopefully well-chosen) message in a bottle and toss it into the waters ~ sometimes though you must forget to put the cork in and the whole thing sinks without trace. Occasionally some kind soul will scoop it up and respond while others throw it back in favour of a post-dated one. That’s life, I suppose :(

    Now, did I put that cork in ?

  46. tupu says:

    Hi Roger
    Thanks. Yes the cork is in!

  47. Huw Powell says:

    Don @ 34, I also failed with RAMPANT. RAMPAGE is a better answer, and of course that T was really not going to work in NEVERTHELESS. Of course, had I twigged 10 from the charade, I might have repaired 12.

    Agreed there is just something “not right” at 25.

    In the end, that’s all I missed – 12 wrong, no answer for 10 or 25. Oh well. Wikipedia required to confirm 1d and to pick the “correct” anagram for 19.

    Thanks for the blog and the puzzle!

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