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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 25.140 &#8211; Crucible</title>
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	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Crucible</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-125040</link>
		<dc:creator>Crucible</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 11:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-125040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sil: it&#039;s always a pleasure to read your forensic report. A pangram&#039;s just a bit of self-indulgence. I quite enjoy the challenge of finding a slot for j, q etc. and I think it makes for more interesting grids. It may also come from playing Scrabble too competitively once upon a time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sil: it&#8217;s always a pleasure to read your forensic report. A pangram&#8217;s just a bit of self-indulgence. I quite enjoy the challenge of finding a slot for j, q etc. and I think it makes for more interesting grids. It may also come from playing Scrabble too competitively once upon a time.</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124965</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-124965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We weren&#039;t at the same wavelength tonight, my PinC and I.
She didn&#039;t like the puzzle very much [&#039;some good clues, though&#039;], I did.

When I first solved a Crucible [which appeared to be his second] I wasn&#039;t sure what to think of it, but &#039;he&#039;s got style&#039; was what I said then.
Nowadays, I know a bit more what to look for.
Crucible likes to use (single letter) abbreviations as valuable building stones - and I learned to understand and appreciate that.
Today they were there, too - but not so much as on previous occasions.

Today was - in a way - an anagram day.
I counted 13 different anagram indicators, which is quite a feat in one puzzle!!
gyrating, crudely, dreadful, bumbling, stupidly, out [the last 3 in one clue !], designed, toast, cracked, criminal, dismantled, nervous, hysterical

&#039;Hard Rock Cafe&#039; and &#039;street cafe&#039; are examples of linking definition and device, where they should be separated - Crucible&#039;s very good at it [just like Orlando and the FT&#039;s Alberich]. &#039;Dry run&#039; is another example of a similar thing.

We (yes, wé) liked the Notting Hill surface of 18ac.
And several other surfaces, too.

We found the NE the hardest bit, didn&#039;t finish it in our After-Work session [lacking any help in whatever form] - but once at home, the Net was my best friend, within 5 minutes.

Finally, pangram?
Maybe it was Crucible&#039;s intention - then chapeau [as the French say].
But, to be honest, for me it is still a non-issue.
A good crossword is all about good clues.
And there were many today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We weren&#8217;t at the same wavelength tonight, my PinC and I.<br />
She didn&#8217;t like the puzzle very much ['some good clues, though'], I did.</p>
<p>When I first solved a Crucible [which appeared to be his second] I wasn&#8217;t sure what to think of it, but &#8216;he&#8217;s got style&#8217; was what I said then.<br />
Nowadays, I know a bit more what to look for.<br />
Crucible likes to use (single letter) abbreviations as valuable building stones &#8211; and I learned to understand and appreciate that.<br />
Today they were there, too &#8211; but not so much as on previous occasions.</p>
<p>Today was &#8211; in a way &#8211; an anagram day.<br />
I counted 13 different anagram indicators, which is quite a feat in one puzzle!!<br />
gyrating, crudely, dreadful, bumbling, stupidly, out [the last 3 in one clue !], designed, toast, cracked, criminal, dismantled, nervous, hysterical</p>
<p>&#8216;Hard Rock Cafe&#8217; and &#8216;street cafe&#8217; are examples of linking definition and device, where they should be separated &#8211; Crucible&#8217;s very good at it [just like Orlando and the FT's Alberich]. &#8216;Dry run&#8217; is another example of a similar thing.</p>
<p>We (yes, wé) liked the Notting Hill surface of 18ac.<br />
And several other surfaces, too.</p>
<p>We found the NE the hardest bit, didn&#8217;t finish it in our After-Work session [lacking any help in whatever form] &#8211; but once at home, the Net was my best friend, within 5 minutes.</p>
<p>Finally, pangram?<br />
Maybe it was Crucible&#8217;s intention &#8211; then chapeau [as the French say].<br />
But, to be honest, for me it is still a non-issue.<br />
A good crossword is all about good clues.<br />
And there were many today.</p>
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		<title>By: muck</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124964</link>
		<dc:creator>muck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-124964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks from me too, Crucible.
I enjoy your puzzles]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks from me too, Crucible.<br />
I enjoy your puzzles</p>
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		<title>By: molonglo</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124954</link>
		<dc:creator>molonglo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-124954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Crucible: for both a good challenge, and for coming aboard the 15x15 barque.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Crucible: for both a good challenge, and for coming aboard the 15&#215;15 barque.</p>
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		<title>By: Dynamic</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124938</link>
		<dc:creator>Dynamic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-124938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Crucible, for reading our comments and describing your sources too. It makes for a fuller experience for us all. I did find this a tough mental workout, but I&#039;ve found your puzzles highly entertaining often enough to be delighted to see your pseudonym. (I think 9 Sep 2009 was memorable, and what I assume was your debut Prize Crossword 24,379 was a highlight in 2008.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Crucible, for reading our comments and describing your sources too. It makes for a fuller experience for us all. I did find this a tough mental workout, but I&#8217;ve found your puzzles highly entertaining often enough to be delighted to see your pseudonym. (I think 9 Sep 2009 was memorable, and what I assume was your debut Prize Crossword 24,379 was a highlight in 2008.)</p>
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		<title>By: Crucible</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124933</link>
		<dc:creator>Crucible</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-124933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for all your comments. 

I was pleased to find AT in Collins (with the alternative ATM) but not in COED or Chambers. Anything to avoid the somewhat clichéd clues for a favourite crossword stone. 

I could indeed have avoided all the discussion about INTERMIX if I&#039;d noticed the ambiguous IN at the start. 

Re Frank&#039;s &#039;naughty&#039; comment at 7, the clue could be said to be a long overdue exhortation to the contending parties, among whom I live. Some hope.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all your comments. </p>
<p>I was pleased to find AT in Collins (with the alternative ATM) but not in COED or Chambers. Anything to avoid the somewhat clichéd clues for a favourite crossword stone. </p>
<p>I could indeed have avoided all the discussion about INTERMIX if I&#8217;d noticed the ambiguous IN at the start. </p>
<p>Re Frank&#8217;s &#8216;naughty&#8217; comment at 7, the clue could be said to be a long overdue exhortation to the contending parties, among whom I live. Some hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Dynamic</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124931</link>
		<dc:creator>Dynamic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 16:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-124931</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re 23a: the conventional unit called an atmosphere is abbreviated &lt;b&gt;atm&lt;/b&gt;

However, searching for &quot;at&quot; in Wikipedia shows that it&#039;s an abbreviation for &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_atmosphere&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;technical atmosphere&lt;/a&gt;, a non-SI unit that, to the best of my knowledge, is rarely used nowadays (I&#039;ve used Pascal Pa, Atmosphere atm, bar, Torr = mm Hg, and Pound-force per square inch psi). I might have read &#039;at&#039; in old scientific literature and assumed it was an older abbreviation of atm.

I don&#039;t think the technical difference by omitting the word technical really spoils a clue with a cleverly disguised definition / wordplay boundary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re 23a: the conventional unit called an atmosphere is abbreviated <b>atm</b></p>
<p>However, searching for &#8220;at&#8221; in Wikipedia shows that it&#8217;s an abbreviation for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_atmosphere" rel="nofollow">technical atmosphere</a>, a non-SI unit that, to the best of my knowledge, is rarely used nowadays (I&#8217;ve used Pascal Pa, Atmosphere atm, bar, Torr = mm Hg, and Pound-force per square inch psi). I might have read &#8216;at&#8217; in old scientific literature and assumed it was an older abbreviation of atm.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the technical difference by omitting the word technical really spoils a clue with a cleverly disguised definition / wordplay boundary.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124926</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[A good work-out for zee little grey cells this one. Thank you Crucible ~ and Andrew, for your deliberations. I particularly like what Oscar Wilde has to say in connection with &lt;i&gt;fourth estate&lt;/i&gt;.

The definition in 13a could perhaps equally have been &#039;works plane&#039; since that is what a turboprop does. ( A shame that the rest of the clue wouldn&#039;t cooperate !). And &lt;i&gt;Doctor&#039;s money designed to reveal symptoms&lt;/i&gt; works as a rather less cumbersome version for 27a but then I guess some of the overall obtuseness of this puzzle would have been lost.

A challenge certainly, but good fun too. Is it only Wednesday ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good work-out for zee little grey cells this one. Thank you Crucible ~ and Andrew, for your deliberations. I particularly like what Oscar Wilde has to say in connection with <i>fourth estate</i>.</p>
<p>The definition in 13a could perhaps equally have been &#8216;works plane&#8217; since that is what a turboprop does. ( A shame that the rest of the clue wouldn&#8217;t cooperate !). And <i>Doctor&#8217;s money designed to reveal symptoms</i> works as a rather less cumbersome version for 27a but then I guess some of the overall obtuseness of this puzzle would have been lost.</p>
<p>A challenge certainly, but good fun too. Is it only Wednesday ?</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Lazenby</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124921</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Lazenby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-124921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Initially I was convinced I was going to to get nowhere with this. But I plodded along in 3 sessions with heavy gadgeteering and finally got there.

I was going to say something silly about a term only being part of an expression, but remembered about null productions just in time!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Initially I was convinced I was going to to get nowhere with this. But I plodded along in 3 sessions with heavy gadgeteering and finally got there.</p>
<p>I was going to say something silly about a term only being part of an expression, but remembered about null productions just in time!</p>
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		<title>By: FumbleFingers</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/10/13/guardian-25-140-crucible/#comment-124916</link>
		<dc:creator>FumbleFingers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=21745#comment-124916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good work, Andrew (and Crucible, of course)

I found this one tough but fair. After a long hard slog the only thing I couldn&#039;t get was the parsing of 7d - I decided straight off that &quot;current expression&quot; = IN TERM, which left me with the impossible task of figuring out how to make &quot;Northern Ireland&quot; = I.

Pre-15x15, I&#039;d probably have fired off a sniffy email to Crucible complaining about the faulty clue, so many thanks for sparing me that embarrassment, Andrew!

Lots of good clues here. I particularly liked the deftly misleading surface readings of 1a &amp; 5a.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good work, Andrew (and Crucible, of course)</p>
<p>I found this one tough but fair. After a long hard slog the only thing I couldn&#8217;t get was the parsing of 7d &#8211; I decided straight off that &#8220;current expression&#8221; = IN TERM, which left me with the impossible task of figuring out how to make &#8220;Northern Ireland&#8221; = I.</p>
<p>Pre-15&#215;15, I&#8217;d probably have fired off a sniffy email to Crucible complaining about the faulty clue, so many thanks for sparing me that embarrassment, Andrew!</p>
<p>Lots of good clues here. I particularly liked the deftly misleading surface readings of 1a &amp; 5a.</p>
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