Comments on: Financial Times 13,527 / Cinephile

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:27:32 +0000

Or writing it as ‘footpath’, and being part of that new kind of (Guardianesque) clueing which apparently doesn’t look that much at which point to split words [either in clues or solutions].
I think this new ‘trend’ is one of the things I am going to address on Nov 30th in that Paul-meeting in London [if I'd been given the chance, of course].

By: Eileen

Eileen — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:05:08 +0000

Hi Sil

I take your point entirely – and agree with it.

My reply this morning [very hasty because [ironically] I was rushing out for a ramble!] was responding only to FP being an abbreviation for footpath, which it undoubtedly is, and not the formulation of the clue.

AS you said earlier, Gaufrid had already addressed the issue of having to split the word before taking the initial letters.

If I’d been writing this clue, I think I’d have played safe and done as Tony Welsh suggests, and written it as ‘foot path’.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:44:59 +0000

I’d like to say that Tony Welsh @#10 hits exactly the nail on its head re FP.
He seems to be the only one so far to understand what’s going on here – it’s not about OS maps, but about cryptic devices and how to formulate them.

By: Gaufrid

Gaufrid — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:27:13 +0000

Hi bamberger
Determining which of a pair of homophones is to be entered in the grid is often problematic, unless the setter has been very careful when composing the clue, and I cannot offer you any hard and fast rules. Sometimes it is obvious, sometimes not.

In this instance the selection was made a little easier due to theme and because of the obvious anagram in 7dn. Even if one hadn’t worked out the anagram, it was clear that the intersection of 10ac and 7dn couldn’t be an ‘A’.

By: bamberger

bamberger — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:23:42 +0000

The first one I “solved” was 10a I thought ah yes Lubricant =grease which sounds like Greece so E must be Europe -but do I put “grease” or “greece” . How should I have known, without 7d, as to what was required, please?
Got about half out thought would never have got 8d eye candy as I didn’t know Kandy.
Venial also a new word for me.

By: Tony Welsh

Tony Welsh — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:01:51 +0000

Thanks, Gaufrid. I looked again and yes it is indeed in my Chambers, which incidentally was given to me as a school prize in 1962!

By: Gaufrid

Gaufrid — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:24:09 +0000

Hi Tony
Scarf pin is not in Collins or COED but Chambers does have it (hyphenated) with the definition “an ornamental pin worn in a scarf; a tie-pin”.

By: Tony Welsh

Tony Welsh — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:16:24 +0000

I got FP for footpath but I don’t think it’s legitimate. If FP is an accepted abbreviation for footpath then the word “initially” is redundant and misleading. By the same token could “misleading initially” be interpreted as “ML”? Maybe it would have been better if the clue had said “foot path initially”?

Though the answer was obvious I had not heard of a scarf pin, nor is in my dictionary.

By: crypticsue

crypticsue — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 12:24:09 +0000

Great fun sorting out all the parts of E in this very nice crossword.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:12:17 +0000

A pleasant start of a sunny Wednesday morning.

I found the 4 (relatively) long ones in the middle rightaway, only to find out that I was now left with 4 mini-crosswords.
Initially considered E to be England/English, then in a moment of weirdness Emma, but eventually after finding FRANCE (20d) the penny dropped.
From there onwards it was not really hard to fill the grid with all these country names.

I didn’t have problems with FP for ‘footpath’, even though I haven’t seen it on OS maps [where one can find however FB for 'footbridge'].

I am not sure whether the identity FP=footpath is the real problem here.
If FP indeed is a legitimate abbreviation for ‘footpath’, then clueing it with “footpath initially” is not right, is it?

Cinephile can only have meant “foot path initially”, so – as you said, Gauufrid – splitting it up first and then taking the starting letters.
Isn’t this just part of a new trend that we saw of late in various Guardian puzzles?
And is Loroso’s “underpants” not something in the same category?
Whether I always like it, is a different matter.