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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 25,174 / Rufus</title>
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	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-144806</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 15:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-144806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for that, pommers.

So it appears that it was a Guardian typo [as I thought!] and not a Rufus mistake, which he, at comment 29, was willing to concede, if necessary.

There was a similar mistake in a Paul puzzle recently, where the crossword editor simply altered the archive, which, for me, does not constitute an adequate explanation / apology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that, pommers.</p>
<p>So it appears that it was a Guardian typo [as I thought!] and not a Rufus mistake, which he, at comment 29, was willing to concede, if necessary.</p>
<p>There was a similar mistake in a Paul puzzle recently, where the crossword editor simply altered the archive, which, for me, does not constitute an adequate explanation / apology.</p>
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		<title>By: pommers</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-144801</link>
		<dc:creator>pommers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 13:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-144801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t know if anyone will read this but I&#039;ve printed this off the Grauniad archive today and the word in 4d is &#039;Effective&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know if anyone will read this but I&#8217;ve printed this off the Grauniad archive today and the word in 4d is &#8216;Effective&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-130808</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 14:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-130808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just for the record, I thought I&#039;d conceded yesterday @ comment 6 re my [small] doubts about &#039;are&#039;. I understand perfectly what you&#039;re saying. 

I was confusing this example with [much] earlier discussions re something like, &#039;I enter&#039; or &#039;I am in&#039; to indicate an insertion of I, which would, surely, be wrong? - and, as I said, could be made OK by the inclusion of &#039;may [be]&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for the record, I thought I&#8217;d conceded yesterday @ comment 6 re my [small] doubts about &#8216;are&#8217;. I understand perfectly what you&#8217;re saying. </p>
<p>I was confusing this example with [much] earlier discussions re something like, &#8216;I enter&#8217; or &#8216;I am in&#8217; to indicate an insertion of I, which would, surely, be wrong? &#8211; and, as I said, could be made OK by the inclusion of &#8216;may [be]&#8216;.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin H</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-130797</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-130797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[anax -  That we use different comparisons to make points about clue-setting doesn&#039;t prove anything at all. Of course crosswords mean different things to different people and solvers will have preferences among setters. This is not about style, it&#039;s about standards. Would you be happy to have all the clues I listed above appear together in the same crossword under your name?

Concerning &#039;are&#039;, I quite agree with you, and for the reasons you give. I&#039;m surprised it caused any comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anax &#8211;  That we use different comparisons to make points about clue-setting doesn&#8217;t prove anything at all. Of course crosswords mean different things to different people and solvers will have preferences among setters. This is not about style, it&#8217;s about standards. Would you be happy to have all the clues I listed above appear together in the same crossword under your name?</p>
<p>Concerning &#8216;are&#8217;, I quite agree with you, and for the reasons you give. I&#8217;m surprised it caused any comment.</p>
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		<title>By: anax</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-130771</link>
		<dc:creator>anax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-130771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK then Martin – you liken the process to a jazz solo, I liken it to a comedian’s stand-up routine. All it proves is that crosswords mean different things to different people and, thus, no setter is going to please everyone. Good point at which to stop arguing.

Just a note of the use of “are” in the anagrind in 1a/elsewhere. It’s fine. When reading the clue “His tables are lost…” the first two words only &lt;i&gt;appear&lt;/i&gt; to be words(!) – actually you are reading the group of letters H, I, S, T, A, B, L, E and S and these “are” to be anagrammed.

Rules of grammar and syntax in cryptic clues apply to definitions and wordplay instructions, not to wordplay fodder.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK then Martin – you liken the process to a jazz solo, I liken it to a comedian’s stand-up routine. All it proves is that crosswords mean different things to different people and, thus, no setter is going to please everyone. Good point at which to stop arguing.</p>
<p>Just a note of the use of “are” in the anagrind in 1a/elsewhere. It’s fine. When reading the clue “His tables are lost…” the first two words only <i>appear</i> to be words(!) – actually you are reading the group of letters H, I, S, T, A, B, L, E and S and these “are” to be anagrammed.</p>
<p>Rules of grammar and syntax in cryptic clues apply to definitions and wordplay instructions, not to wordplay fodder.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin H</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-130631</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-130631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think my comment was perfectly fair anax. (25) 

So time to write choice clues is &#039;free&#039; and a luxury? Tell that to the setters who are prepared to spend time on a puzzle, for our entertainment, and for whom quality is more important than &#039;output&#039;: those who would never give us stuff like 6, 22 or 26 Across, or 1,2, 13 or 23 down. It&#039;s facile, lazy clueing, and useless as a beginner&#039;s introduction to cryptic solving because Rufus hasn&#039;t worked any decent wordplay, as you put it, here at all. Not that he can&#039;t - his surface readings are justly praised, but, as I said, he spreads his quality stuff thinly. Why? Well, I know what I think.

As for repeating clues: think of a jazz player who never plays quite the same solo twice - elements may, certainly will, be repeated, but freshly each time - and who takes pride in the skill of reworking those elements to make continually new creations. Pure repeating is pure cheating. Not unlike clueing in some ways. Crossword setting may be a minor art form, but art form it is, and it should be performed with a bit more integrity and respect for the solver than this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think my comment was perfectly fair anax. (25) </p>
<p>So time to write choice clues is &#8216;free&#8217; and a luxury? Tell that to the setters who are prepared to spend time on a puzzle, for our entertainment, and for whom quality is more important than &#8216;output&#8217;: those who would never give us stuff like 6, 22 or 26 Across, or 1,2, 13 or 23 down. It&#8217;s facile, lazy clueing, and useless as a beginner&#8217;s introduction to cryptic solving because Rufus hasn&#8217;t worked any decent wordplay, as you put it, here at all. Not that he can&#8217;t &#8211; his surface readings are justly praised, but, as I said, he spreads his quality stuff thinly. Why? Well, I know what I think.</p>
<p>As for repeating clues: think of a jazz player who never plays quite the same solo twice &#8211; elements may, certainly will, be repeated, but freshly each time &#8211; and who takes pride in the skill of reworking those elements to make continually new creations. Pure repeating is pure cheating. Not unlike clueing in some ways. Crossword setting may be a minor art form, but art form it is, and it should be performed with a bit more integrity and respect for the solver than this.</p>
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		<title>By: fredb</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-130629</link>
		<dc:creator>fredb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-130629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tautologies are discovered by logicians, not grammarians and are not synonymous with redundancy or redundancies]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tautologies are discovered by logicians, not grammarians and are not synonymous with redundancy or redundancies</p>
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		<title>By: liz</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-130627</link>
		<dc:creator>liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-130627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anax@25

Well said. No one beats Rufus for surfaces.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anax@25</p>
<p>Well said. No one beats Rufus for surfaces.</p>
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		<title>By: muck</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-130616</link>
		<dc:creator>muck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-130616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Eileen &amp; Rufus

4dn IN FORCE: I thought I knew the difference between &#039;effect&#039; and &#039;affect&#039; and that therefore &#039;affective&#039; in this clue had to be plain wrong. It isn&#039;t so clear, as others have said. But Chambers has &#039;affective&#039; only as &#039;arising from or influencing emotion&#039; and &#039;effective&#039; as inter alia &#039;in force&#039;. Occam&#039;s Razor rules.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Eileen &amp; Rufus</p>
<p>4dn IN FORCE: I thought I knew the difference between &#8216;effect&#8217; and &#8216;affect&#8217; and that therefore &#8216;affective&#8217; in this clue had to be plain wrong. It isn&#8217;t so clear, as others have said. But Chambers has &#8216;affective&#8217; only as &#8216;arising from or influencing emotion&#8217; and &#8216;effective&#8217; as inter alia &#8216;in force&#8217;. Occam&#8217;s Razor rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/22/guardian-25174-rufus/#comment-130593</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23146#comment-130593</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suppose, if I had &#039;an astonishing hand-written index of clues&#039; (or even a new-fangled, computerised version of same), I might be sorely tempted, given my frankly astonishing not to mention record-breaking output, to fill my grids with as many recycled efforts as possible before beginning the race to compose the numerous heart-stopping masterpieces needed to fill the remaining gaps in my myriad grids. 

But then, I am not that veritable pillar of whom we speak. I am a low rascal with nary a scruple.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose, if I had &#8216;an astonishing hand-written index of clues&#8217; (or even a new-fangled, computerised version of same), I might be sorely tempted, given my frankly astonishing not to mention record-breaking output, to fill my grids with as many recycled efforts as possible before beginning the race to compose the numerous heart-stopping masterpieces needed to fill the remaining gaps in my myriad grids. </p>
<p>But then, I am not that veritable pillar of whom we speak. I am a low rascal with nary a scruple.</p>
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