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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 25,173 (Sat 20 Nov)/Bonxie – Cobblers</title>
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	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: CGK</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-132213</link>
		<dc:creator>CGK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-132213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it was Bamber Gascoigne who described St Simeon Stylites, the prototype stylite who spent 30 uncomfortable years on his pillar, as the first agony columnist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it was Bamber Gascoigne who described St Simeon Stylites, the prototype stylite who spent 30 uncomfortable years on his pillar, as the first agony columnist.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-132211</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-132211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regalize @ 23

It&#039;s unlikely to be a proof-reading error.

Please remember that this is The Grauniad and errors are regularly introduced as a matter of policy by the editorial staff to preserve its well-deserved reputation.

I believe that the technical term is &#039;Product Branding&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regalize @ 23</p>
<p>It&#8217;s unlikely to be a proof-reading error.</p>
<p>Please remember that this is The Grauniad and errors are regularly introduced as a matter of policy by the editorial staff to preserve its well-deserved reputation.</p>
<p>I believe that the technical term is &#8216;Product Branding&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: REGALIZE</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-132204</link>
		<dc:creator>REGALIZE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-132204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This was my first Bonxie.  I enjoyed the puzzle but was dismayed at the 20ac part of 9,20 (pilot)and the appearance of the same word in the clue for 11dn (pilot). I&#039;ve come across this in other puzzles but not very often.  Proof-reading error?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was my first Bonxie.  I enjoyed the puzzle but was dismayed at the 20ac part of 9,20 (pilot)and the appearance of the same word in the clue for 11dn (pilot). I&#8217;ve come across this in other puzzles but not very often.  Proof-reading error?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-132169</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-132169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sil!

1) Bonxie shouldn&#039;t be cooked on a funeral pyre: fair enough, although I don&#039;t think anyone has actually suggested this. That WOULD be a bit harsh.

2) You see what I and others mean: good to have your agreement. Clearly you see that there were some loose clues in this puzzle.

3) I shouldn&#039;t say anything about &#039;colleagues&#039;: you&#039;ve said this to me before, but as previously explained my options in addition are (a) to say nothing, and (b) to be complimentary at all times regardless of what I really think. So I&#039;ll take my chances (while endeavouring at all times not to write any less-than-precise clues. Even though I&#039;m possibly a &#039;Libertarian&#039;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sil!</p>
<p>1) Bonxie shouldn&#8217;t be cooked on a funeral pyre: fair enough, although I don&#8217;t think anyone has actually suggested this. That WOULD be a bit harsh.</p>
<p>2) You see what I and others mean: good to have your agreement. Clearly you see that there were some loose clues in this puzzle.</p>
<p>3) I shouldn&#8217;t say anything about &#8216;colleagues&#8217;: you&#8217;ve said this to me before, but as previously explained my options in addition are (a) to say nothing, and (b) to be complimentary at all times regardless of what I really think. So I&#8217;ll take my chances (while endeavouring at all times not to write any less-than-precise clues. Even though I&#8217;m possibly a &#8216;Libertarian&#8217;).</p>
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		<title>By: Carrots</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-132137</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-132137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FOURTEEN MINUTES!?! The Supersonic Solver has done it again! It takes me 14 minutes to read through the puzzle without putting any answers in. I don`t know which football team Rightback plays for, but if I did, I`d have a fiver on them at every match. I note he posted at 05.00a.m., which makes me suspect that he plugs himself into the mains overnight.

My much-be-doodled copy of this puzzle is buried deep in a sea chest, but I can remember crying &quot;foul&quot; at MEATBALLS and scurrying to the QE library for MAHARATTA and LINGLE. Otherwise an impressive prize debut for Bonxie.

I do hope that it is Rufus who welcomes me back to the log fire in the pub tomorrow lunchtime. Then everything will be in its place in the firmament of Crossword Land and dreams of ocean voyages a fading memory.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FOURTEEN MINUTES!?! The Supersonic Solver has done it again! It takes me 14 minutes to read through the puzzle without putting any answers in. I don`t know which football team Rightback plays for, but if I did, I`d have a fiver on them at every match. I note he posted at 05.00a.m., which makes me suspect that he plugs himself into the mains overnight.</p>
<p>My much-be-doodled copy of this puzzle is buried deep in a sea chest, but I can remember crying &#8220;foul&#8221; at MEATBALLS and scurrying to the QE library for MAHARATTA and LINGLE. Otherwise an impressive prize debut for Bonxie.</p>
<p>I do hope that it is Rufus who welcomes me back to the log fire in the pub tomorrow lunchtime. Then everything will be in its place in the firmament of Crossword Land and dreams of ocean voyages a fading memory.</p>
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		<title>By: tupu</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-132098</link>
		<dc:creator>tupu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 09:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-132098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi cryptomaniac

Thanks. I don&#039;t know but I would not be surprised from the OED reference to &#039;former...kingdom&#039; if there is quite a lot of history and even locally contested usage tied up in such a word.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi cryptomaniac</p>
<p>Thanks. I don&#8217;t know but I would not be surprised from the OED reference to &#8216;former&#8230;kingdom&#8217; if there is quite a lot of history and even locally contested usage tied up in such a word.</p>
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		<title>By: cryptomaniac</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-132054</link>
		<dc:creator>cryptomaniac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 03:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-132054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tupu

I didn&#039;t come across this definition in my google searches for &quot;mahratta&quot;, so my objection stands withdrawn, though my understanding of the word is different. Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tupu</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t come across this definition in my google searches for &#8220;mahratta&#8221;, so my objection stands withdrawn, though my understanding of the word is different. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-132020</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Nov 2010 23:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-132020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul B (#17), yes, I think it&#039;s harsh to dismiss this crossword as &quot;we have here a badly-written puzzle, which might easily have been rescued by some snappy editing&quot;, as rightback criticises only 6 (out of 30) clues: 7, 12, 18ac &amp; 2, 19, 23d.
Duggie adds a couple more, but - for me - not enough to put Bonxie on the funeral pyre, moreover given the fact that some of rightback&#039;s &#039;complaints&#039; were about what I would call the Guardian Policy on Crosswords rather than Bonxie as such.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I do see what you (and others) are talking about.
I do understand why &quot;Cobblers! Thread&quot; and &quot;headline&quot; are dubious.
We&#039;ll have to wait another week, but in today&#039;s Araucaria there were also rather dubious things and I&#039;m not sure whether he would face a similar hostility.
As I said before &quot;this is the World of the Guardian, where so-called ‘rules’ are sometimes put aside&quot;.
Right or wrong? I don&#039;t know.
Either you love it or you hate it.

Yes, Paul, I am a great admirer your puzzles (yes, I am) and even though some people think you&#039;re a Libertarian, they are far more precise than the average Guardian crossword.
At the same time, though, you should realise that it is not always very elegant to criticise a fellow setter to such an extent [it happened quite a few times before].
Paul, in a way I like your directness (as I am quite like that too, in real life) but I would personally be a bit more modest when &#039;colleagues&#039; are concerned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul B (#17), yes, I think it&#8217;s harsh to dismiss this crossword as &#8220;we have here a badly-written puzzle, which might easily have been rescued by some snappy editing&#8221;, as rightback criticises only 6 (out of 30) clues: 7, 12, 18ac &amp; 2, 19, 23d.<br />
Duggie adds a couple more, but &#8211; for me &#8211; not enough to put Bonxie on the funeral pyre, moreover given the fact that some of rightback&#8217;s &#8216;complaints&#8217; were about what I would call the Guardian Policy on Crosswords rather than Bonxie as such.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I do see what you (and others) are talking about.<br />
I do understand why &#8220;Cobblers! Thread&#8221; and &#8220;headline&#8221; are dubious.<br />
We&#8217;ll have to wait another week, but in today&#8217;s Araucaria there were also rather dubious things and I&#8217;m not sure whether he would face a similar hostility.<br />
As I said before &#8220;this is the World of the Guardian, where so-called ‘rules’ are sometimes put aside&#8221;.<br />
Right or wrong? I don&#8217;t know.<br />
Either you love it or you hate it.</p>
<p>Yes, Paul, I am a great admirer your puzzles (yes, I am) and even though some people think you&#8217;re a Libertarian, they are far more precise than the average Guardian crossword.<br />
At the same time, though, you should realise that it is not always very elegant to criticise a fellow setter to such an extent [it happened quite a few times before].<br />
Paul, in a way I like your directness (as I am quite like that too, in real life) but I would personally be a bit more modest when &#8216;colleagues&#8217; are concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: tupu</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-131966</link>
		<dc:creator>tupu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-131966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi molongolo and cryptomaniac

Just to point out that the OED gives the following for mahratta
 A. adj.    Of or relating to the princely and military classes of the former Hindu kingdom of Maharashtra in central India (now the modern Indian state of Maharashtra). Also: of or relating to the language of these classes.

If this is wrong I think the setter is in good company.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi molongolo and cryptomaniac</p>
<p>Just to point out that the OED gives the following for mahratta<br />
 A. adj.    Of or relating to the princely and military classes of the former Hindu kingdom of Maharashtra in central India (now the modern Indian state of Maharashtra). Also: of or relating to the language of these classes.</p>
<p>If this is wrong I think the setter is in good company.</p>
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		<title>By: cryptomaniac</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/11/27/guardian-25173-sat-20-novbonxie-cobblers/#comment-131965</link>
		<dc:creator>cryptomaniac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23267#comment-131965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi all, and thanks rightback for the elucidation.

I didn&#039;t mind the construction of the puzzle on the whole, but &#039;maharatta&#039;incensed me because it has nothing to do with &#039;princely&#039;, though it&#039;s definitely Indian. If the intention was to mislead, it was certainly well met.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all, and thanks rightback for the elucidation.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t mind the construction of the puzzle on the whole, but &#8216;maharatta&#8217;incensed me because it has nothing to do with &#8216;princely&#8217;, though it&#8217;s definitely Indian. If the intention was to mislead, it was certainly well met.</p>
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