Comments on: Guardian 25,190 / Boatman

By: Roger

Roger — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 13:21:17 +0000

… later than planned due to a hitherto duff PC
Thanks mhl. A lot of fun in this puzzle, although as Mr Beaver says, perhaps overdosing rather on the cleverness. I began looking for tricks where there were none ! Wrt 10a, ‘in’ may be indicating the hidden answer (in THE MEDiterranean) but it’s a small point and the outcome is the same anyway. Thanks Boatman, good trip.

By: mhl

mhl — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 12:10:32 +0000

Hi Sil – I’d be interested to hear more about the Guardian advent that Paul was speaking at, and asked about in the General Crossword Discussion thread – perhaps you’d like to tell us more about it there?

I was trying to make exactly the same point about VITAMIN in the post, but perhaps not very clearly.

You’re quite right about cod marketing – I’ll correct that :)

I’m slightly surprised that the majority of commenters clearly regard this crossword so highly – for me it was just missing some of the elegance in construction that you see with my favourite setters (Brendan, Paul, Shed, Phi, Dac, etc.) – it’s difficult to articulate the exact difference, though.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Sat, 11 Dec 2010 22:29:26 +0000

Very late to the party due another kind of party last night.
I said it on earlier occasions, Boatman’s style is completely on my wavelength.
Though I will not say, like some others, innovative – inventive or adventurous are better qualifications.

As always, a few clues with Boatman himself in the leading role – unlike Martin H, I do not find this ‘arrogant’, it’s part of his style.

3 Mediterraneans in 3 different ways (as the solution in 6ac, as part of the definition in 25ac, as a definition par example in 18d).
All kinds of vessels, 2 whales, 2 winter footwear, 2 cods.
Very typical of Boatman’s style.

Personally, I am not a big fan of what happens in 18d (att-ending), but it is like that nowadays.
[I was a kind of relieved to hear Paul say (in his recent Guardian-lecture) that he wasn't keen on 'not' for 'no t' (following the infamous SIRIUS mistake, after which some posters here suggested that we should break up 'no/t') - most top setters are IMO clever enough anyway, they don't need devices like this]

I felt a bit unhappy with 2d’s VITAMIN.
The definition is surely not just ‘A’, but probably ‘A, perhaps’.
I think this is what Boatman meant, because the contruction doesn’t need ‘perhaps’ as an anagrind: (VAIN IMPOSTER)* could lead to VITAMINPROSE, after which ‘prose’ is wasted.

In 6d (SELFISH) my parsing was slightly different from yours, mhl [with thanks for the blog].
For me, it is SELL (to market) FISH (cod: could be) missing an L (left wanting).
Not that it makes much difference.

Thanks, Boatman, for another one of your masterpieces.
And good to see that so many people really enjoyed this crossword.

By: Jan

Jan — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:54:56 +0000

Thanks, mhl.

In a bit of a sweat about the T in STEAMER but I loved the cunning of 16; it read as a clear and logical sentence.

By: Mr Beaver

Mr Beaver — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:22:56 +0000

I think perhaps the dissatisfaction that some felt with this was the sheer number of ‘cheeky’ devices – particularly the subtractions, as mhl says. One or two less conventional constructions certainly add to the fun, but at times I thought Boatman was trying a bit too hard.
On balance though, I enjoyed it, and we finished it in reasonable time, which is always a bonus.
And the theme? It was fishy – in both senses

By: Carrots

Carrots — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:03:03 +0000

A late post due to being dragged round frock shops, compensated by a lovely lunch. A clever, extremely fair and wily puzzle. Boatman just gets better and better. I still don`t understand VITAMIN, but what matter if the rest is so good?

By: muck

muck — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:55:53 +0000

Thanks for the blog, mhl
I am usually a Boatman fan, but remain unhappy with 2dn VITAMIN and 18dn STEAMER

By: sidey

sidey — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:38:32 +0000

A good puzzle. I am intrigued by the number of comments claiming it was innovative though. I can’t see a single device that hasn’t been used before.

By: Dad'sLad

Dad'sLad — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:28:05 +0000

Thanks mhl.

The weekend must be beckoning because I find myself with the ‘Enthusiasts’ rather than the ‘Grumps’ for once (the imminence of Christmas shopping will restore Grumpiness shortly). Quirky, enjoyable and, in places, satisfyingly clever.

By: Paul Drury

Paul Drury — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:17:10 +0000

Very enjoyable, imaginative and novel clues, and I liked the maritime theme too. I agree with the comments about pushing the envelope with anagram indicators, but he gets away with it (in this case) as they are in keeping with the generally whimsical style of the clues.

Att-ending made me laugh out loud when I finally figured it out, so it can’t be all that bad a clue.