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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 25,185 (Sat 4 Dec)/Araucaria &#8211; Bony N.</title>
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	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Huw Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-144666</link>
		<dc:creator>Huw Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 06:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-144666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, sorry, Rightback, you were working without references, so my critique is unfair.  Heck, I only got from &quot;Sir Arthur&quot; to &quot;Wellesley&quot; via wikipedia.  And hence to &quot;Wellington&quot;.  But then again, I am an ex-pat and it&#039;s not fair to expect me to know all the Brit heroes and their entire stories off the top of my head...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, sorry, Rightback, you were working without references, so my critique is unfair.  Heck, I only got from &#8220;Sir Arthur&#8221; to &#8220;Wellesley&#8221; via wikipedia.  And hence to &#8220;Wellington&#8221;.  But then again, I am an ex-pat and it&#8217;s not fair to expect me to know all the Brit heroes and their entire stories off the top of my head&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Huw Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-144665</link>
		<dc:creator>Huw Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 06:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-144665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not my favorite either.  Half solved way back when, sort of finished tonight.

I don&#039;t see &quot;hell&quot; = &quot;dis&quot;, I had &quot;PITTANCE&quot; entered for 15d.  Not satisfactory, but PIT = hell, TAN = beat and CE = church.

Oh also, &quot;Solving time: 15 mins, three mistakes&quot;: it is not &quot;solved&quot; if there are three mistakes.

Fun from Araucaria, and interesting commentary from Rightback.

A bit repetitive, since we got a Waterloo puzzle on the anniversary of the battle. 

Oh well, nobody&#039;s perfect, if they were life would be boring.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not my favorite either.  Half solved way back when, sort of finished tonight.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see &#8220;hell&#8221; = &#8220;dis&#8221;, I had &#8220;PITTANCE&#8221; entered for 15d.  Not satisfactory, but PIT = hell, TAN = beat and CE = church.</p>
<p>Oh also, &#8220;Solving time: 15 mins, three mistakes&#8221;: it is not &#8220;solved&#8221; if there are three mistakes.</p>
<p>Fun from Araucaria, and interesting commentary from Rightback.</p>
<p>A bit repetitive, since we got a Waterloo puzzle on the anniversary of the battle. </p>
<p>Oh well, nobody&#8217;s perfect, if they were life would be boring.</p>
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		<title>By: maarvarq</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-143627</link>
		<dc:creator>maarvarq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 07:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-143627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only reason I didn&#039;t get caught at 20dn by &quot;strewn&quot; was I Googled &quot;trew trust&quot; and this blog came up at number 4 with enough detail to confirm that that was wrong :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only reason I didn&#8217;t get caught at 20dn by &#8220;strewn&#8221; was I Googled &#8220;trew trust&#8221; and this blog came up at number 4 with enough detail to confirm that that was wrong <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: rightback</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-142429</link>
		<dc:creator>rightback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-142429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks to all commenters.

sheffieldhatter (#13): Is is really surprising that STROWN/OAKWORTH stymied so many people? I knew none of &#039;strown&#039;, &#039;trow&#039; or &#039;Oakworth&#039;, whereas I did know &#039;strewn&#039; and at least knew that &#039;trew&#039; was a valid word, while &#039;Oakheath&#039; sounds just as plausible as &#039;Oakworth&#039; to me. But you&#039;re quite right that any mistakes write off the &quot;completion&quot; time, though in this case I don&#039;t think extra time would have helped without using references.

Stella (#11): Re littoral, I did of course mean &#039;adjective&#039; rather than &#039;verb&#039; - now corrected, thanks!

tupu (#7): I agree a case can be made for the cryptic reading of 4ac, but what is the surface reading supposed to mean?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to all commenters.</p>
<p>sheffieldhatter (#13): Is is really surprising that STROWN/OAKWORTH stymied so many people? I knew none of &#8216;strown&#8217;, &#8216;trow&#8217; or &#8216;Oakworth&#8217;, whereas I did know &#8216;strewn&#8217; and at least knew that &#8216;trew&#8217; was a valid word, while &#8216;Oakheath&#8217; sounds just as plausible as &#8216;Oakworth&#8217; to me. But you&#8217;re quite right that any mistakes write off the &#8220;completion&#8221; time, though in this case I don&#8217;t think extra time would have helped without using references.</p>
<p>Stella (#11): Re littoral, I did of course mean &#8216;adjective&#8217; rather than &#8216;verb&#8217; &#8211; now corrected, thanks!</p>
<p>tupu (#7): I agree a case can be made for the cryptic reading of 4ac, but what is the surface reading supposed to mean?</p>
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		<title>By: sheffieldhatter</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-142268</link>
		<dc:creator>sheffieldhatter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 20:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-142268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s surprising that so many solvers went down the Oakheath/Strewn route. I considered strewn, but immediately saw that it wouldn&#039;t do. I then remembered strowed from a hymn we used to sing at school around Easter time www.oremus.org/hymnal/r/r055.html and went for strown. And as an honorary Yorkshireman I was familiar with Oakworth, so not much trouble there either. Where exactly is Oakheath? :D

I&#039;m not sure to what extent Rightback &quot;cracked&quot; this in 15 minutes, as Carrots says @10. By his own admission he had three answers wrong: Wolmesley for Wellesley, Strewn for Strown, Oakheath for Oakworth and in addition he admits to having Knowall for Knocker (presumably until getting the crossing letters). While full of admiration for his amazingly quick completion times, I remain to be convinced that Rightback is really solving crosswords rather than simply filling in words that appear to fit together. ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s surprising that so many solvers went down the Oakheath/Strewn route. I considered strewn, but immediately saw that it wouldn&#8217;t do. I then remembered strowed from a hymn we used to sing at school around Easter time <a href="http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/r/r055.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/r/r055.html</a> and went for strown. And as an honorary Yorkshireman I was familiar with Oakworth, so not much trouble there either. Where exactly is Oakheath? <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure to what extent Rightback &#8220;cracked&#8221; this in 15 minutes, as Carrots says @10. By his own admission he had three answers wrong: Wolmesley for Wellesley, Strewn for Strown, Oakheath for Oakworth and in addition he admits to having Knowall for Knocker (presumably until getting the crossing letters). While full of admiration for his amazingly quick completion times, I remain to be convinced that Rightback is really solving crosswords rather than simply filling in words that appear to fit together. <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Carrots</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-141026</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 17:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-141026</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Preened my ruffled self-esteem with today`s prize puzzle (which is, of course, taboo to discuss until next Saturday). A bit like the apprentice out-doing the wizard: can`t wait to impart some thoughts....

P.S. There is a chat room message waiting for those planning to attend the &quot;bit of a do&quot; kindly organised by K`s Dad on 29th January.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preened my ruffled self-esteem with today`s prize puzzle (which is, of course, taboo to discuss until next Saturday). A bit like the apprentice out-doing the wizard: can`t wait to impart some thoughts&#8230;.</p>
<p>P.S. There is a chat room message waiting for those planning to attend the &#8220;bit of a do&#8221; kindly organised by K`s Dad on 29th January.</p>
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		<title>By: Stella</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-140855</link>
		<dc:creator>Stella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 14:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-140855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Rightback. I finished this with no mistakes, though with a little research, especially as I misunderstood 13ac as being entirely the name of a battle, until I realised that the two only actually fought face to face at one. Never mind, it was an opportunity to go over Wellington&#039;s exploits in Spain.

I didn&#039;t know his surname, but worked it out from the wordplay, and this, with 9/10, led me into the theme. I had no problem with &#039;littoral&#039;, this being the normal Spanish word - and we have a lot of it -, though with only one &#039;t&#039; :) I have a quibble with your blog, though: I can&#039;t imagine a context in which this word could be a verb, unless it can be used to express &quot;sail along the coastline&quot;. Perhaps you meant adverb?

Like most, I entered &#039;strewn&#039; to start with, but wasn&#039;t satisfied with &#039;trew&#039;=&#039;trust&#039;, so checked in Chambers that the alternative participle existed.

As Mr. Beaver says, it must be hard for someone with such a wide field of knowledge to judge how much of it is &#039;general&#039;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Rightback. I finished this with no mistakes, though with a little research, especially as I misunderstood 13ac as being entirely the name of a battle, until I realised that the two only actually fought face to face at one. Never mind, it was an opportunity to go over Wellington&#8217;s exploits in Spain.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t know his surname, but worked it out from the wordplay, and this, with 9/10, led me into the theme. I had no problem with &#8216;littoral&#8217;, this being the normal Spanish word &#8211; and we have a lot of it -, though with only one &#8216;t&#8217; <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I have a quibble with your blog, though: I can&#8217;t imagine a context in which this word could be a verb, unless it can be used to express &#8220;sail along the coastline&#8221;. Perhaps you meant adverb?</p>
<p>Like most, I entered &#8216;strewn&#8217; to start with, but wasn&#8217;t satisfied with &#8216;trew&#8217;='trust&#8217;, so checked in Chambers that the alternative participle existed.</p>
<p>As Mr. Beaver says, it must be hard for someone with such a wide field of knowledge to judge how much of it is &#8216;general&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Carrots</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-140677</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-140677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I must confess this was one Araucaria which I didn`t enjoy. It was like wading through treacle to the next obscure usage or (for me) unfathomable wordplay. I retired hurt with seven to go, but, unlike last week, I haven`t sulked or kicked the dog, because I did my best. Which, of course, was not good enough.

Thanks anyway Araucaria and Rightback....for cracking it in fifteen minutes....I don`t know how you do it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must confess this was one Araucaria which I didn`t enjoy. It was like wading through treacle to the next obscure usage or (for me) unfathomable wordplay. I retired hurt with seven to go, but, unlike last week, I haven`t sulked or kicked the dog, because I did my best. Which, of course, was not good enough.</p>
<p>Thanks anyway Araucaria and Rightback&#8230;.for cracking it in fifteen minutes&#8230;.I don`t know how you do it.</p>
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		<title>By: retired pleb</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-140627</link>
		<dc:creator>retired pleb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-140627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[just a problem with oakworth/strewn-strown like many others, otherwise all fell into place]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just a problem with oakworth/strewn-strown like many others, otherwise all fell into place</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Beaver</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2010/12/11/guardian-25185-sat-4-decaraucaria-bony-n/#comment-140594</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Beaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=23811#comment-140594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Didn&#039;t find this too bad, though I admit to entering STREWN first, but with a feeling that it wasn&#039;t quite right.  I always expect to do a bit of dictionary-hunting with Araucaria - I don&#039;t think he&#039;s wilfully obscure; it&#039;s just that his &#039;general&#039; knowledge covers a wider field than for most of us.
When solvers have such a wide variety of backgrounds, it must be difficult for a setter to guess how widely a given word is known.

I read the MIL in 4a as &#039;mile&#039; contracted - this would have fitted &#039;goes little way&#039; in the clue, but I couldn&#039;t see what the &#039;very&#039; was doing. rightback&#039;s interpretation is much better!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t find this too bad, though I admit to entering STREWN first, but with a feeling that it wasn&#8217;t quite right.  I always expect to do a bit of dictionary-hunting with Araucaria &#8211; I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s wilfully obscure; it&#8217;s just that his &#8216;general&#8217; knowledge covers a wider field than for most of us.<br />
When solvers have such a wide variety of backgrounds, it must be difficult for a setter to guess how widely a given word is known.</p>
<p>I read the MIL in 4a as &#8216;mile&#8217; contracted &#8211; this would have fitted &#8216;goes little way&#8217; in the clue, but I couldn&#8217;t see what the &#8216;very&#8217; was doing. rightback&#8217;s interpretation is much better!</p>
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