Comments on: Guardian 25,209 – Rufus

By: Paul B

Paul B — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:54:54 +0000

Re brand names, as solutions they would be, in pretty much every case, blatant advertising and thus undesirable. Used cleverly as codes for aspects of SI, or perhaps for use in some CD or other, they might be okay.

I tried

Burger King? (5)

as a CD clue for ELVIS once, with some people quite liking it: I hope at least it illustrates the point.

By: Carrots

Carrots — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:24:37 +0000

Tupu, Sil, Martin..many thanks for your thoughts on brand names. I`m a bit clearer in my own mind now, but, although I agree with Sil about the differentiation between clues and solutions, I can`t work out why.

It seems that the more well known brand-names are and how close they are identified with their product (e.g. “BIRO” with “BALL PEN”)the more likely it is they will appear.

Tupu: Trust you to come up with an entire crossword comprising brand-names! You have earned a star prize and can now go back to sleep. I do remember the SMARTIES debate, but not the outcome. Was there one?

By: Paul B

Paul B — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 07:52:59 +0000

Ian W: I wasn’t trying to be Rufus’ most vigorous apologist as I’m sure you were able to see, but there ARE two different definitions alluded to (in that ‘once in a lifetime’ is not per se a definition) in the BLUE MOON clue. I thought I’d draw attention to that in the light of several comments declaring it to be more or less a single definition – it’s not.

By: Martin H

Martin H — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 00:07:01 +0000

I’m not sure that names of living (or dead) people in clues or solutions makes crosswords any livelier. I dislike the use of half a celebrity’s name to clue the other half, but that, I’m afraid, doesn’t make it illegitimate. Nor can I really see any other argument than that of taste against brand names as solutions or in clues, so long as they are well enough known to be counted as fair: ROLLS as a solution and RR clued as ‘car’ or the like?

By: mike

mike — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 00:04:07 +0000

AS usual a bit late, but as to shoplifter and robbery: if one could be before the beak charged with “robbery with violence” presumably there was also just “robbery” without violence. Solved the clue and saw no fault with it, disliked blue moon though it made me smile, got “relief” (?!) but came here to find its explanation. I like a reasonably gentle start to the week.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:40:38 +0000

Brand names, I think, that’s tricky.
I wouldn’t want to see (and probably will not see) BRITISH AIRWAYS as a solution, but I don’t mind the use of BA as part of a construction.
No EASY JET et al as a solution, but as far as I can see it now, I wouldn’t object when ‘Easy Jet’ got a mention in the clue itself.
Like eg (courtesy to my PinC): “Easy Jet, say, setting off for a journey” (5,7)

We also use names of (living) people in clues, even answers [remember Paul's GRAHAM NORTON and GORDON RAMSAY?] and they certainly make crosswords a bit livelier. Although I’m not sure whether the editor of The Times would agree.

PERNOD and BACARDI as a solution is a slightly different matter.
Being originally brand names, they have now become just ‘names’ for a certain drink.
They both have a mention in Chambers, so therefore – I think – it is legitimate to use them as a solution.

In summary, using ‘names’ in clues are OK for me, using commercial ‘names’ in solutions only when they’ve evolved into something more neutral.
But, as I said, it’s tricky.

By: tupu

tupu — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:30:51 +0000

Hi Carrots

There is a whole crossword devoted to them on
http://www.infoplease.com/xwords/brands.html

There have been various debates on this site – remember 26 October Paul where Smarties were an answer?

Seems to be what setter can get away with – at least for Guardian e.g. who, quality of clue, how well known name is etc.

Can I get back in the sand now please?

By: Carrots

Carrots — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:05:10 +0000

Please will some ostrich retrieve their head from the sand and inform me of their thoughts on the use of commercial brand names as answers in cryptic puzzles? “PARK DRIVE”….”An old, fuming Rotten Row for horses” OK/NOT OK?
Why?

By: tupu

tupu — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:16:33 +0000

ps sorry For ‘did make’ sc. ‘did not make’.

By: tupu

tupu — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:15:32 +0000

Hi Tony
As I noted @4, I did make proper sense of 4d but manehi is right. For instance, Concise Oxford includes under investment ‘(Mil.) act of besieging, blockade’ and so one gets ‘relief’ as ‘of Mafeking’. My own rather desperate reading was of something like capital gains tax ‘relief’ on a ‘failed investment’