Comments on: Guardian 25,225 – Chifonie

By: ernie

ernie — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:39:31 +0000

Thank you Andrew and Chifonie. Nice to get one finished: doesn’t often happen. Agree with all the comments about possibly obscure abbreviations. As a chemist (not pharmacist), I have seen many Winchester bottles.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:20:04 +0000

Post #15, that is.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:17:50 +0000

A friendly crossword from Chifonie whose trademark is surely the efficient (and usually elegant) use of a limited number of cryptic devices.

While my PinC and I were still talking about work, she ticked off 20d:
“Dosage ordered for mariner (3,3)”.
After I woke up, I said: “SAD EGO?”
“No”. “What about SEA GOD?”. “No”. “Ah! SEA DOG”.

The only clue we didn’t fully understand was 24d (LEAR).
We were too much focused on Sovereign = King = Lear.
But thanks, Andrew, for explaining.

We enjoyed the crossword, even though it wasn’t too taxing.
Just generally well written (as ever with this setter).
The only thing I did not like was the use of “from”, even twice (in 3d and 5d).
As one might know by now, I am very sensitive to linking words, especially when they’re not right (that is, IMHO).
Look at 3d, and the clue tells us that “WINE+R around CHEST” is something that we get from “bottle”. I think from a construction POV it is the other way around. Similarly in 5d’s PURLOINER.
But maybe it’s just nit-picking.

As to “in Africa” for the definition of MALAWI, I can only say: Araucaria does it all the time.
Oh, and I almost forgot: There’s “large” in the clue for LARGO (23d) – that’s not very good, is it?
But you can’t have it all.

On the other hand, the clue for the very (too?) easy SOCRATES (7d) is extremely neat.
Nice crossword.

Finally, if Gaufrid allows me to do that [but I think he will], I would like to take the opportunity to invite anyone who’s interested to have a go at my own little crossword. More details at General Discussion, post #14.

By: gm4hqf

gm4hqf — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:02:58 +0000

Thanks Andrew

Not too difficult a puzzle. Isn’t it amazing that over the last 55 or more years of doing crosswords, I never knew that a Winchester was a bottle.

Got to learn something new every day!

By: Roger

Roger — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:07:41 +0000

Thanks Andrew, an agreeable solve today I thought although wasn’t that keen on ‘weak’ = ‘bad’ (10a).
How about Cleaner hides joint in rimless knickers for 5d ? (Involves a step too far maybe but would make me smile )
Liked the juxtaposition of 12/11 and 16/1d among others.

By: tupu

tupu — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:05:52 +0000

Hi Martin

Me neither! I just liked the quotation!

My comments are mainly based on OED and Chambers. As far as I can tell from them, river comes most directly from Anglo-Norman and the terms there derive from riparius/a and relate to riviere (fr) and riviera (It).

I suspect we’ve exhausted this one and each other! Too many ‘nits’ for one day!

By: Jack Aubrey

Jack Aubrey — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:03:52 +0000

Managed to hold myself up unnecessarily by being convinced that “case” meant that 3 down must be “salmanazar” (12 bottle bottle). Just shows how my mind runs, I guess….. Now where did I leave the cork screw?

By: Martin H

Martin H — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:46:53 +0000

Hi again tupu – there are all sorts of ways for words to pass from one language to another. Couldn’t the derivation be simply phonic – ripa/river? Even if a river is a river because it is something with a bank, I don’t think that legitimises sticking -er on bank to make ‘river’. It just might if ‘rive’ had come down as an alternative to ‘bank’, but it didn’t. But I’m not a philologist, and don’t want to get out of my depth.

By: tupu

tupu — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:30:29 +0000

Hi Martin

But what about the fact that ‘river’ apparently = of a bank? There is no verb associated with it.

By: Martin H

Martin H — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:10:39 +0000

Hi tupu – I’m not convinced that ‘of a bank’ translates comfortably into ‘banker’.

Both ‘header’ and ‘winger’ are constructed from actions rather than attributes, directly in the former case and indirectly in the latter, via ‘play on the wing’; so not a model for ‘banker’, which might rather be analogous to calling a motorway a ‘verger’. The indirect formulation from an action could prove fruitful for setters though, perhaps enabling, for instance, Dracula to be called a ‘caper’.