Comments on: Financial Times 13,638 /Loroso

By: Canalonly

Canalonly — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 20:59:08 +0000

thank you @ anax

By: anax

anax — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:13:27 +0000

Ha. It’s a very interesting concept (might even have just given me an idea for something) but no, when writing a clue the answer should be treated as if it was written out in full. Grid cross-checking isn’t taken into account. Taking 11a/3d as an example, one initial – ultimately abandoned – idea had consisted of SUR VIV (as before), ALOFT, anagram of THIEF, then TEST.
Had the above principle been in place, I wouldn’t have been able to have the THIEF anagram; would have to use THEF instead… or, I could keep THIEF and the first bit would have to be based on SURVV. How does one choose? It’s impossible to do so without introducing a level of potentially unfair guesswork.

By: Canalonly

Canalonly — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:01:02 +0000

if it is a proper anagram then all of the letters should be used so there should be two separate o’s in the answer – in my book but i wouldn’t lose sleep over it – was just wondering…

By: Eileen

Eileen — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:31:02 +0000

Thanks, Sil – the penny drops!

I was only looking at the clue, not the grid – it was a while since I had solved the puzzle and didn’t notice when I entered it. As you say, very interesting,

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:18:17 +0000

Eileen, Canalonly probably means that in the grid the O of ABSALOM is the same O as the one in ACHITOFEL. Therefore this O is one symbol that is used twice.
As such an interesting question [even though it is clear for me that this O should be clued twice].

By: Eileen

Eileen — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:02:51 +0000

Sorry, Cananlonly, I still don’t understand what you mean: there are two Os in MANHOOD ALPHABETICAL and in ABSALOM AND ACHITOPHEL.

By: Canalonly

Canalonly — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:27:09 +0000

no i was talking about Manhood alphabetical sorry Eileen should have been clearer. it was clear in my head before i wrote!

By: Eileen

Eileen — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:16:28 +0000

Hi Canalonly

Are we still talking about the same clue?

There is only one O in the anagram and in the solution:

SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST: SUR VIV + anagram of OF LIFE THAT + TEST [game].

By: Canalonly

Canalonly — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:49:07 +0000

i still have no idea where the second “o” from the anagram has gone as the same one is is used twice

By: Scarpia

Scarpia — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:42:57 +0000

Hi Eileen,
As you say let’s not get into regional pronunciations.
It doesn’t,however,change the point I was trying to illustrate,just substitute ‘pale we hear’ for ‘came first’.

But as anax points out”Others would say it should it should be pronounced as it is in the whole answer. So the setter can’t really win as opinion will always be divided.”
At the end of the day it was a great puzzle and I agree with Thomas99 – context obviously matters.

Thanks,once again,for the trouble you have taken to explain your point to me.