Comments on: Guardian 25,267 / Gordius

By: Huw Powell

Huw Powell — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 20:40:07 +0000

No one else seems to have been thrilled by two I had marked as favorites – ENIGMA and BARTOK.

I never found NERO. And some of the others left me a bit cold. Kicked myself for how long it took to go from pencil to pen with MOUSE PAD. Very common phrase in USA.

Thanks Gordius, and manehi!

By: ernie

ernie — Sat, 12 Mar 2011 19:12:05 +0000

An enjoyable puzzle – did it all (but for a couple of clues) in reasonable time.
For me ‘fireside bower’ conjures up ‘inglenook’ – so the surface is okay.

By: Scarpia

Scarpia — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 23:33:58 +0000

Thanks manehi.
I thought this was a very good puzzle from Gordius,which makes 2 in a row if I’m not mistaken.
18 down wasn’t great but there has to be at least one quibble with a Gordius puzzle!
I’m not a fan of cryptic definitions but I did think NERO was a corker.Reading Sil’s post above I have been trying to think why this should be.It was definitely an aha moment when I twigged the answer(my last one in as well) and I like it’s brevity,also I think the clue read like a double definition,so I felt it was a nice misdirection.
Reading what I have just typed I am sure Sil will think – so what!
But like you say cd’s are a matter of taste,what works for one person,doesn’t for another.

By: tupu

tupu — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 23:32:05 +0000

Hi Martin H
Again I take your point, but we are still then left with a strange type of misleading. Normally, a misleading element in a clue is aimed at taking the solver away from the answer. As I noted above, however, I find it hard to understand a misleading element that takes the solver to the answer.

Like you I liked quite a lot of this puzzle (including Nero). There the clue, as you suggest, conjures up a quite misleading image (almost of a shepherd and his lass sheltering cosily besides a fire). But I have slight reservations about 18d (the first 5/8 is a lot to move) and 10a (a long and somewhat messy construction), and really serious ones about 25a.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 23:30:47 +0000

OK, Martin (and/or others), I get it (and got it).
Let’s leave it there.

By: Martin H

Martin H — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 23:23:37 +0000

Hi again Sil – I should have said that the two meanings of ‘bower’ would also be pronounced differently: the fiddler to rhyme with ‘thrower’, and the intimate space with ‘hour’ (I’m sure some homophone sticklers would jump on that one, but I hope it’s clear to you).

‘Fireside’ thus also appears in two very different scenarios.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 23:20:26 +0000

Thanks Martin, I thought I would get an answer like that.
But the crucial thing for me is whether one speaks of a ‘fireside bower’ in any kind of context. That would indeed turn it into a rather good cd.
As, in my own words, cd’s are a matter of taste, I fear that this one still doesn’t appeal much to me/us.
I said it on previous occasions, I just haven’t got a good antenna for this sort of device [which is probably a shame].

By: Martin H

Martin H — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 23:09:08 +0000

Hi Sil

(Chambers) bower: a shady enclosure or recess in a garden, an arbour; an inner apartment; a lady’s private room…..etc. You can see that the clue conjured up an image quite different from that of the solution.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 22:59:34 +0000

Martin H, Dad’s Lad and probably others,
you all find 2d an excellent cd, but for us it was quite the opposite.
Cryptic definitions are most of the time a matter of taste, but some are evidently better than others.

We (which includes my British PinC) cannot see any other allusion than to Nero fiddling while Rome’s burning , meaning that we don’t see anything else in “Fireside bower”. Is it an expression in the English language? Can’t find it in dictionaries nor on the Internet (tried my best) nor are we familiar with it in any other way.
If it is, I can understand the lyricism – if not, well, I would be happy to learn something today.

By: Martin H

Martin H — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 22:57:15 +0000

Hi again tupu – we crossed. If the anagram was intended either ‘hazardous’ or ‘tossed’ becomes superfluous – you shouldn’t have two anagram indicators. However, in a ha clue, that’s not a problem. The possible anagram has to be intended as misleading.