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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 25,272 / Brummie</title>
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	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154331</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 09:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Carrots [and Sil]

Absolutely. It was nothing to do with the theme, or the clues or anything I can put my finger on: just a vague [and unusual with a Brummie] feeling of dissatisfaction on finishing. I only commented because someone else felt the same way. Maybe it was just the way I was feeling yesterday - but I thoroughly enjoyed the Anax!

Confidence restored with today&#039;s Arachne! :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carrots [and Sil]</p>
<p>Absolutely. It was nothing to do with the theme, or the clues or anything I can put my finger on: just a vague [and unusual with a Brummie] feeling of dissatisfaction on finishing. I only commented because someone else felt the same way. Maybe it was just the way I was feeling yesterday &#8211; but I thoroughly enjoyed the Anax!</p>
<p>Confidence restored with today&#8217;s Arachne! <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Carrots</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154328</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 09:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154328</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Sil....many thanks for amplifying your thoughts. I`ve come to associate you with &quot;calling a spade a spade&quot; and as one who does not pussyfoot around, and your comments clearly illustrate this. I agree with everything you say about Brummie (and I`m sure Eileen does too) but I think we shared the same dilemma as the lovelorn Duke of Orsino in The Merchant of Venice:

&quot;In sooth, I know not why I am so sad......but how I caught it, or came by it, what stuff `tis made of, whereoft it is born, I am to learn.&quot;

(I know how much you enjoy Shakespeare!!) Have a good day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sil&#8230;.many thanks for amplifying your thoughts. I`ve come to associate you with &#8220;calling a spade a spade&#8221; and as one who does not pussyfoot around, and your comments clearly illustrate this. I agree with everything you say about Brummie (and I`m sure Eileen does too) but I think we shared the same dilemma as the lovelorn Duke of Orsino in The Merchant of Venice:</p>
<p>&#8220;In sooth, I know not why I am so sad&#8230;&#8230;but how I caught it, or came by it, what stuff `tis made of, whereoft it is born, I am to learn.&#8221;</p>
<p>(I know how much you enjoy Shakespeare!!) Have a good day.</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154317</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 00:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carrots (@44), &quot;not quite what I expected&quot;?
For me, the most important things in a crossword are fairness, precision and playfulness. I love to see Paul describing &#039;Casanova&#039; as a &#039;Generous sperm donor&#039;, but for me one hilarious moment like this is not enough to say &quot;wow, what a great crossword!&quot; [but don&#039;t get me wrong, it wás a good one].
And today&#039;s Anax in the Indy was exceptionally clued.
Just reading the clues made one curious.

So, yes, themes and surfaces cán make a difference.
Brummie&#039;s theme wasn&#039;t spectacular, but to be honest, in the end I don&#039;t care that much about themes. I rather prefer to have an immaculately clued crossword. And Brummie&#039;s wás one, without any doubt.
Personally, I see a theme (usually) more as a bonus.
Value added (as it certainly was in anax&#039;s Indy puzzle today).

In this Brummie there were, for me (but apparently not for everyone), enough smiles and clever constructions to appreciate the puzzle.
As I said before, some may not feel too much excitement (I do understand that), but there&#039;s nothing wrong with the clueing as such - in fact, it was excellent.
And at least for me, that is what it&#039;s all about eventually.

Ah well, we are back to basics: we&#039;re all different, aren&#039;t we?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carrots (@44), &#8220;not quite what I expected&#8221;?<br />
For me, the most important things in a crossword are fairness, precision and playfulness. I love to see Paul describing &#8216;Casanova&#8217; as a &#8216;Generous sperm donor&#8217;, but for me one hilarious moment like this is not enough to say &#8220;wow, what a great crossword!&#8221; [but don't get me wrong, it wás a good one].<br />
And today&#8217;s Anax in the Indy was exceptionally clued.<br />
Just reading the clues made one curious.</p>
<p>So, yes, themes and surfaces cán make a difference.<br />
Brummie&#8217;s theme wasn&#8217;t spectacular, but to be honest, in the end I don&#8217;t care that much about themes. I rather prefer to have an immaculately clued crossword. And Brummie&#8217;s wás one, without any doubt.<br />
Personally, I see a theme (usually) more as a bonus.<br />
Value added (as it certainly was in anax&#8217;s Indy puzzle today).</p>
<p>In this Brummie there were, for me (but apparently not for everyone), enough smiles and clever constructions to appreciate the puzzle.<br />
As I said before, some may not feel too much excitement (I do understand that), but there&#8217;s nothing wrong with the clueing as such &#8211; in fact, it was excellent.<br />
And at least for me, that is what it&#8217;s all about eventually.</p>
<p>Ah well, we are back to basics: we&#8217;re all different, aren&#8217;t we?</p>
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		<title>By: Carrrots</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154315</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrrots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 23:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops! Spoke too soon (or took too long in saying it). Thanks for your observations Sil...even though they were not quite what I expected.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops! Spoke too soon (or took too long in saying it). Thanks for your observations Sil&#8230;even though they were not quite what I expected.</p>
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		<title>By: Carrrots</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154314</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrrots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 23:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Auntie E....and thanks for your reassuring empathy: it`s always a relief to discover that one is not quite as bonkers as one leads oneself to suspect. It looks like Sil has had a day off, otherwise I would have expected him to have something interesting to say about this puzzle...possibly with both smoking barrels! 

I think Martin H`s response to Anax goes a fair way towards explaining the sense of unease we both (and, it would appear, others) feel. If, for example, the theme subscribed to the Auteur theory and all the films were made by the same director, I think we might all be applauding Brummie rather than vaguely finding him wanting. He is an accomplished setter and, like you, when I saw his masthead I relished my lunchtime solve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Auntie E&#8230;.and thanks for your reassuring empathy: it`s always a relief to discover that one is not quite as bonkers as one leads oneself to suspect. It looks like Sil has had a day off, otherwise I would have expected him to have something interesting to say about this puzzle&#8230;possibly with both smoking barrels! </p>
<p>I think Martin H`s response to Anax goes a fair way towards explaining the sense of unease we both (and, it would appear, others) feel. If, for example, the theme subscribed to the Auteur theory and all the films were made by the same director, I think we might all be applauding Brummie rather than vaguely finding him wanting. He is an accomplished setter and, like you, when I saw his masthead I relished my lunchtime solve.</p>
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		<title>By: anax</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154313</link>
		<dc:creator>anax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 23:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Martin
I can well understand that an apparently one-dimensional theme can feel like a let-down if you&#039;re hoping for an unexpected additional twist. All I&#039;m saying is that there are plenty of puzzles in which the theme consists of no more than a number of answers falling into a particular category, very often defined by an answer elsewhere in the grid. This was a puzzle of that type. It isn&#039;t spectacular, but ultimately it&#039;s just a puzzle with a mini theme.
In fairness there are setters who effectively spoil solvers with amazingly intricate and expansive themes, so it&#039;s easy to think all themed puzzles should be like that. They shouldn&#039;t - we have plain puzzles and we have deeply themed ones, and there&#039;s plenty of room in the middle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Martin<br />
I can well understand that an apparently one-dimensional theme can feel like a let-down if you&#8217;re hoping for an unexpected additional twist. All I&#8217;m saying is that there are plenty of puzzles in which the theme consists of no more than a number of answers falling into a particular category, very often defined by an answer elsewhere in the grid. This was a puzzle of that type. It isn&#8217;t spectacular, but ultimately it&#8217;s just a puzzle with a mini theme.<br />
In fairness there are setters who effectively spoil solvers with amazingly intricate and expansive themes, so it&#8217;s easy to think all themed puzzles should be like that. They shouldn&#8217;t &#8211; we have plain puzzles and we have deeply themed ones, and there&#8217;s plenty of room in the middle.</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154312</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 23:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Movies seem to divide the world.
First there was that Brendan puzzle, now there&#039;s Brummie.

Yes, Dave (@14), I spotted the repeated use of I for Independent, but apart from that I cannot spot anything that&#039;s wrong with this crossword.

Our first couple of entries were MONA LISA (28ac) - very well clued - and REDS (25d), but we didn&#039;t see any common link at that point. Only after (soon after) finding out that 26d was FILM, the theme was cracked. 

Just like many others we fell into the ALI trap - a film fresh in our minds, as it appeared in the Brendan crossword.
Can we blame Brummie for writing a clue that potentially can have two solutions? 
I don&#039;t think so. I&#039;m quite sure that he was so much focused on clueing RAN that ALI didn&#039;t sprang to mind.
The same with 2d. My PinC knew the film (BABE), but I was, just like Duncan [thx!], thinking of BIKE.
I&#039;d never heard of UNFORGIVEN (13d) as a movie, but for my PinC it did ring a bell.

The theme was clear - the films were, however, not always obvious.
But why should should they be?
For example, we found 3d&#039;s MISERY by construction, thinking it might be a film. Fine.
We adjusted quickly to this approach of the theme.
With films as a theme, we thought Brummie using less obvious titles made it a lot more challenging.
And it didn&#039;t stand in the way of completing the puzzle.
After an hour or so we had everything right without external resources.

Moreover, the crossword was impeccably clued.
With some nice touches, like the pop music surface of 26d, the anagram of a two letter word [ever seen thát before?] in 26ac, the splendid anagram fodder in 28ac and the combi &#039;Fixed price&#039; in 24ac.

Perhaps, some people (like Carrots - and I only mention his name because he mentioned mine) had an indifferent &#039;feel&#039; about this crossword, but for us it was a Quality Product.
One of many this week.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Movies seem to divide the world.<br />
First there was that Brendan puzzle, now there&#8217;s Brummie.</p>
<p>Yes, Dave (@14), I spotted the repeated use of I for Independent, but apart from that I cannot spot anything that&#8217;s wrong with this crossword.</p>
<p>Our first couple of entries were MONA LISA (28ac) &#8211; very well clued &#8211; and REDS (25d), but we didn&#8217;t see any common link at that point. Only after (soon after) finding out that 26d was FILM, the theme was cracked. </p>
<p>Just like many others we fell into the ALI trap &#8211; a film fresh in our minds, as it appeared in the Brendan crossword.<br />
Can we blame Brummie for writing a clue that potentially can have two solutions?<br />
I don&#8217;t think so. I&#8217;m quite sure that he was so much focused on clueing RAN that ALI didn&#8217;t sprang to mind.<br />
The same with 2d. My PinC knew the film (BABE), but I was, just like Duncan [thx!], thinking of BIKE.<br />
I&#8217;d never heard of UNFORGIVEN (13d) as a movie, but for my PinC it did ring a bell.</p>
<p>The theme was clear &#8211; the films were, however, not always obvious.<br />
But why should should they be?<br />
For example, we found 3d&#8217;s MISERY by construction, thinking it might be a film. Fine.<br />
We adjusted quickly to this approach of the theme.<br />
With films as a theme, we thought Brummie using less obvious titles made it a lot more challenging.<br />
And it didn&#8217;t stand in the way of completing the puzzle.<br />
After an hour or so we had everything right without external resources.</p>
<p>Moreover, the crossword was impeccably clued.<br />
With some nice touches, like the pop music surface of 26d, the anagram of a two letter word [ever seen thát before?] in 26ac, the splendid anagram fodder in 28ac and the combi &#8216;Fixed price&#8217; in 24ac.</p>
<p>Perhaps, some people (like Carrots &#8211; and I only mention his name because he mentioned mine) had an indifferent &#8216;feel&#8217; about this crossword, but for us it was a Quality Product.<br />
One of many this week.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin H</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154307</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi anax - I think there&#039;s a difference between &#039;trees, rivers, composers etc&#039; and films, as material for crossword themes. Trees, rivers and composers have their own names: Thames is always a river, Beethoven always a composer, etc. There are sometimes double meanings - pine, ash, Isis and so on, but by and large this is the case. There was a puzzle recently where a setter exploited the special case of composers whose names had dictionary meanings, but this worked precisely because it was a special case. Films are not like this - they don&#039;t have names, they have titles. Every film in today&#039;s crossword could have been a solution having nothing to do with film, and there was nothing in the bald definition to give them that group identity which trees or rivers would have had . It&#039;s this lack of focus that has drawn complaint I think.

You didn&#039;t answer the main point I made in my entry at 6. Perhaps, of course, you didn&#039;t intend to, but I&#039;d like to know what you think: when the definition part of a substantial number of clues is reduced to &#039;26 down&#039; - and this applies to any theme where the solutions could be drawn from a list - the solver is robbed of much of the pleasure of the puzzle - that element which consists of teasing out the definition from the wordplay. Instead we have a sort of cross between a cryptic and a general knowledge puzzle. To me the two are radically different, and while a GK might gain flavour from a small dash of wordplay, I don&#039;t think the reverse is true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi anax &#8211; I think there&#8217;s a difference between &#8216;trees, rivers, composers etc&#8217; and films, as material for crossword themes. Trees, rivers and composers have their own names: Thames is always a river, Beethoven always a composer, etc. There are sometimes double meanings &#8211; pine, ash, Isis and so on, but by and large this is the case. There was a puzzle recently where a setter exploited the special case of composers whose names had dictionary meanings, but this worked precisely because it was a special case. Films are not like this &#8211; they don&#8217;t have names, they have titles. Every film in today&#8217;s crossword could have been a solution having nothing to do with film, and there was nothing in the bald definition to give them that group identity which trees or rivers would have had . It&#8217;s this lack of focus that has drawn complaint I think.</p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t answer the main point I made in my entry at 6. Perhaps, of course, you didn&#8217;t intend to, but I&#8217;d like to know what you think: when the definition part of a substantial number of clues is reduced to &#8217;26 down&#8217; &#8211; and this applies to any theme where the solutions could be drawn from a list &#8211; the solver is robbed of much of the pleasure of the puzzle &#8211; that element which consists of teasing out the definition from the wordplay. Instead we have a sort of cross between a cryptic and a general knowledge puzzle. To me the two are radically different, and while a GK might gain flavour from a small dash of wordplay, I don&#8217;t think the reverse is true.</p>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154305</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Carrots @35

I&#039;m really glad to see your comment. Your Auntie E, like you, has kept a close watch all day, without commenting. My heart leapt when I saw &#039;Brummie&#039; on the puzzle. I finished it, without too much bother, and ended up feeling much the same way as you, I think.

I&#039;m sorry I can&#039;r help you but I&#039;m glad to see that someone else reached the same [non] conclusion as I did. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carrots @35</p>
<p>I&#8217;m really glad to see your comment. Your Auntie E, like you, has kept a close watch all day, without commenting. My heart leapt when I saw &#8216;Brummie&#8217; on the puzzle. I finished it, without too much bother, and ended up feeling much the same way as you, I think.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry I can&#8217;r help you but I&#8217;m glad to see that someone else reached the same [non] conclusion as I did. <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: tupu</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/03/17/guardian-25272-brummie/#comment-154304</link>
		<dc:creator>tupu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=27527#comment-154304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Duncan for all your hard work on the films.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Duncan for all your hard work on the films.</p>
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