Comments on: Guardian Quiptic N° 593 by Arachne

By: Robi

Robi — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:31:09 +0000

Just in case anyone is still out there. Re Derek @9's: 'And the taget audience for a Quiptic can be expected to have a copy of the Crossword Dictionary can they?' I only started doing the Guardian crosswords last November, so can legitimately be called a beginner. I think anyone in the same situation should get a copy of the Chambers Crossword Dictionary. I find it an essential aid, especially for someone of my age who cannot always think of the appropriate synonyms. It's a paperback and can be purchased here for about £8.

By: Martin H

Martin H — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:43:29 +0000

“to defend backstop as not meaning the protective screen”! Where?

By: Derek Lazenby

Derek Lazenby — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:37:34 +0000

For a normal crossword that is a reasonable point. For a Quiptic it comes under the heading of too obscure. I have only a vague memory of that game, i.e. a long time ago, but it isn’t it actually called British Baseball to distinguish it from Baseball which is normally presumed to be the American game. I may be wrong of course.

I note people refering to “estimable tomes” to defend backstop as not meaning the protective screen, however, I shall watch ESPN America this season waiting for the mentions of backstop as a position. Anyone seriously expect me to hear the term on there?

By: EB

EB — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:13:17 +0000

RE 9ac – Backstop/Catcher.
All discussion above about these terms seems to refer to U.S. Baseball; Arachne just used the term “baseball” – there is a British form of baseball played in S. Wales and the Liverpool area of England. It is a popular summer sport and is very competitive. Although there are some similarities with U.S. Baseball there are also many differences.
In this sport one player stands upright close behind the “batter” and is known as the backstop – usually another player, known as the longstop, is positioned some way behind the backstop to field the ball if the backstop misses it.

More info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_baseball

By: PeterO

PeterO — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:16:18 +0000

Derek – You might try looking at a limey publication such as the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language,which gives catcher as an alternate definition of backstop.
Robi – thanks for the reference to sport as an anagrind. I wonder if the intention is sport in the sense of play, or as the primarily horticultural sense of a spontaneous mutation – or both.
I had forgotten about Lanzarote until prompted by this crossword, but I have come across it before as the principal setting for Pedro Almodovar’s film Broken Embraces

By: Martin H

Martin H — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:05:39 +0000

Not a good Quiptic for reason 2 given by Derek, but a far better Cryptic than today’s Rufus.

As a baseball fan, admittedly of more recent standing than Derek, I quibble slightly with his quibble about ‘backstop’. While I have never heard said ‘backstop’ for ‘catcher’, the term, to my surprise, is apparently legitimate. Among other sources, the glossary of ‘Watching Baseball Smarter’ by Zack Hample – an excellent and beautifully written guide for anyone who wants to understand the game, and definitely written by an American who knows his baseball – gives it as a secondary meaning. A timely clue anyway as Opening Day, the start of the regular season, is this Thursday March 31. Go Giants.

By: Derek Lazenby

Derek Lazenby — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:01:46 +0000

GP: “the catcher is sometimes referred to as the backstop” who by? I’ve never heard any American say it, nor seen any American write it. If they are any such instances then they are seriously rare. English people say it, but that is ignorance speaking.

Glad you mentioned Lanzarote. Meant to say before, I usually think of a different Lanzarote, a racehorse!

By: grandpuzzler

grandpuzzler — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:52:36 +0000

Thanks Arachne and PeterO. My better half just returned from three weeks in South Italy including a side trip to Capri and she agrees with the clue. I have been a baseball fan for sixty years and, although rare, the catcher is sometimes referred to as the backstop. LANZAROTE was new to me. I liked TORONTO.

Getemup Scout!

By: Derek Lazenby

Derek Lazenby — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:48:36 +0000

Robi, nice try, but you are using a UK dictionary, not an American one. It would be the same as one of them calling a soccer goal-keeper a goal-minder. It doesn’t matter what foreign dictionaries perpetuate the mistake (and in this case that is us who are foreign), it is still a mistake. There is no such position as backstop in a baseball team, regardless of what English rounders fans or UK dictionaries think.

And the taget audience for a Quiptic can be expected to have a copy of the Crossword Dictionary can they? I agree with the validity but, I don’t agree with it’s appropriateness for this audience. The bloggers words say the same, even though he may not have intended that.

By: Robi

Robi — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:16:39 +0000

Derek @7; I bow to your superior knowledge of baseball. It is, however, in the ODE as: (baseball) a catcher. Also in the free dictionary, viz:
back·stop (bkstp)
n.
1. Sports A screen or fence used to prevent a ball from being thrown or hit far out of a playing area, as in baseball.
2. Baseball A catcher.

So, I don’t think we can blame the setter for using it in this way.

‘Sport’ is in the Chambers Crossword Dictionary as an anagrind.