Comments on: Guardian 25,289 / Paul

By: tupu

tupu — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 16:34:03 +0000

Hi Peter and RCWhiting

I have only just caught up with this fascinating excursion into Pacific linguistics.
I know nothing about this language – and read in awe of your expertise, but as you imply, t and s are, to us surprisingly, very close sounds, distinguished by the fact that the former is a stop and the latter a fricative. They are the unvoiced opposite pair to the ‘voiced’ d and z.
My recollection is that Ancient Greek also shifted between them in different dialects.
Thus sea appears as thalasse and thalatte, if I remember rightly. I believe I have also come across their connectedness in other contexts.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 19:03:13 +0000

Peter, I am sure you are right.It always struck me as very unlikely that one letter would fall out of the chest. However, I did spend some time working there and ‘tradition’ did definitely have it.
Certainly crossing reefs did lead to many losses of which I have personal experience.

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 15:53:49 +0000

@RCWhiting: I believe that is less a matter of stormy weather than of Micronesian phonology: the Kiribati language, like many of its relatives, has a notably small consonant inventory (by some counts, only 10), and in particular doesn’t distinguish between /t/ and /s/. (Specifically, they have a phoneme /t/ which in some contexts is assibilated (sic) to be pronounced as [s].) But a fascinating story either way…

By: mumfish

mumfish — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 06:57:15 +0000

As my mother has had a dozen Basenjis over the years it’s nice to see them get some recognition in a crossword. I think I’ve seen the word used as a clue before. The dogs don’t bark but creep up on intruders and give them a nasty nip! When pleased they make a rather melodious yodelling sound!
Loved the “meccano” clue but put in toe-sucking instead of bum-sucking. I’ve never heard of the latter – it seems to be a combination of two other less pleasant phrases that wouldn’t be suitable – even for a Paul!

Thanks Eileen and Paul for an enjoyable puzzle and parse.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 00:10:39 +0000

Robi @32
“and the [ti] from “nation”.

Not very relevant but possibly interesting:
When the early missionaries arrived in the Gilbert Islands (now Kiribati) they attempted to create a written version of the local language. Tradition has it that while crossing the dangerous reef to get to land they lost the ‘S’ from the printing set.
Thus they replaced it by ‘Ti’ which persists to this day. You will find a number of males called Timon and of course the country is spoken as Kiribass.

By: Scarpia

Scarpia — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 22:37:53 +0000

Following on fron otter’s (cryptic?) comment above,here’s a link to another 7 dwarfs joke -
http://tinyurl.com/5uw8sp2 please do not check it out if you are easily offended.

By: Wolfie

Wolfie — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:56:28 +0000

Unusually, of the three Guardian cryptics this week by Rufus, Brummie and Paul it was Rufus’s offering on Monday that was (in my opinion) the most difficult. Today’s Paul was on the easy side, but quite entertaining.

By: Mark Hanley

Mark Hanley — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:05:44 +0000

Very easy today, first two down clues were as straightforward as it gets, still enjoyable, hadn’t heard “bumsucking / bumsucker” since school, nice one Paul

By: EB

EB — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 17:43:23 +0000

An old mate of mine used to reckon the lyrics were (as applied to him):

“I owe, I owe
It’s off to work I go!”

By: Robi

Robi — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 17:28:21 +0000

Last boring comment: In the 1988 Disney animated film Oliver & Company Tito sings “Heigh-Ho, Heigh-Ho, it’s off to work we go” when he is rescuing Jenny.