Comments on: Independent 7661/Raich

By: Allan_C

Allan_C — Sat, 07 May 2011 06:02:11 +0000

Conrad @1: But if you google “first twentieth century double” now it will lead you here!

By: Raich

Raich — Fri, 06 May 2011 19:45:45 +0000

Many thanks, John, for the blog and to everyone who has commented on this puzzle. The comments on PROWESS as being difficult are extremely interesting, and, on reflection, it might have been better to have introduced the ‘bravery in battle’ concept in the definition. Using WESSI, which is perhaps not all that well known, in the build-up might have made it extra tricky too tho I guess that from crossing letters the answer would have been fairly gettable.

Raich has to admit he is of the certain age to have been around when that feat occurred and remembers all the excitement associated with it. In the days before European competition had fully developed and the League Cup existed (1960-61 was the very first season of that competition and some of the leading clubs did not enter), the League and the FA Cup were everything. While two doubles had been achieved (by Preston and Aston Villa) late in 19th century, many thought it would not be possible in the 20th century. In that season, Spurs won their first 11 league games and were destined for the league title and the ‘first twentieth century double’ possibility seemed on as they approached the FA Cup with no league pressures.

Not sure if K’s D is aware, but the only team to take Spurs to a replay in that FA Cup run was a team from the North East in a game that is still spoken about today, a quarter-final (6th round) game played on 4 March 1961 at Roker which ended 1-1. When Sunderland equalised thro Willie McPheat, there was one of the earliest recorded pitch invasions (by schoolboys). Danny Blanchflower (of Spurs) said in his autobiography that the resulting pause (after his team had been unnerved by the ‘Roker Roar’) helped them to see out the game – they won the replay 5-0.

By: scchua

scchua — Fri, 06 May 2011 15:51:56 +0000

Thanks John for the blog, and Raich for the thematic puzzle.

This was quite enjoyable for me, though after an easy start, I started to slow down until I saw SPURS, LEICESTER and TWO-NIL in the top half; and the xxxBxE feat could only be a DOUBLE (or a TREBLE). A little searching gave the rest of 14A. And the rest followed quite smoothly. Favourites were 29A RESISTANT, 19D NOUGHTS, and 14D FUNICULAR.

By: caretman

caretman — Fri, 06 May 2011 13:52:59 +0000

I felt just like Thomas99 @6, that I was gradually understanding some arcane document as pieces of the puzzle came together. That was the bonus at the end for me–using the clues I’d gleaned from the crossword to do the right searches in wikipedia to find out that today was the 50th anniversary of the feat, between the teams I thought by the score I thought. And I marveled a bit that it took so long into the 20th century for the double to occur. So thanks, Raich, for the extra work and a challenging puzzle, and thanks John for the explanations of a couple of clues I didn’t understand.

By: Thomas99

Thomas99 — Fri, 06 May 2011 13:23:36 +0000

PS.
Re PROWESS(20d) – I didn’t think of it as “bravery” either but apparently it’s the original (now obsolete/obsolescent?) meaning. The single-volume Oxford Dictionary of English has this:

“1. skill or expertise in a particular activity or field: his prowess as a fisherman | her culinary prowess.
2. bravery in battle.

- ORIGIN Middle English (in sense 2): from Old French proesce, from prou ‘valiant’. Sense 1 dates from the early 20th cent.”

By: flashling

flashling — Fri, 06 May 2011 13:15:12 +0000

As an exiled rural leicestershire lad now living in London (ref malc95 #3) I don’t have much nostalgia to wallow in! Despite the theme I quite enjoyed the puzzle itself but needed the blog/comments to understand prowess fully.

Thanks to Raich and John

By: Thomas99

Thomas99 — Fri, 06 May 2011 13:09:42 +0000

The theme was more or less meaningless to me but still I found the puzzle enjoyable, partly because of the gradual realisation that this all meant a lot more to other people – a bit like deciphering an ancient manuscript, I imagine. It’s just a pity my Spurs-mad colleague isn’t into crosswords.

By: Kathryn's Dad

Kathryn's Dad — Fri, 06 May 2011 12:27:37 +0000

Well, I quite enjoyed this, but not as much as with previous offerings from Raich.

The crossword editor is a mad hot Spurs fan; the setter’s also keen on the beautiful game; it’s the fiftieth anniversary of the Spurs league and cup double. Is this self-indulgent? Discuss.

Even though I’m keen on footie myself, when I’d finished (after a lot of effort, because I found it hard) my reaction was ‘Oh, is that what it’s all about?’ The only saving grace was the brilliant &lit at 6dn (which you won’t understand if you’re not a Sunderland fan).

Right, in an effort not to bitch too much about two Friday Indys running, I’m off now to search online for Conrad’s Get-a-Life Club. They sound like my kind of people.

By: Eileen

Eileen — Fri, 06 May 2011 11:58:38 +0000

Sorry, Raich, I forgot to thank you for the puzzle: no hard feelings really – it’s a long time ago!

By: malc95

malc95 — Fri, 06 May 2011 11:44:00 +0000

Thanks John, and thanks Raich for memories of 50 years ago today.

Sorry Eileen, but as an exiled Londoner living in rural Leicestershire I have to wallow in such nostalgia.

Two further references to today’s theme in the clues to 14a etc (White Hart Lane) and 18a (Billy Nicholson).