Comments on: Guardian 25,319 / Gordius

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Thu, 12 May 2011 16:04:48 +0000

RCWhiting (@32), I presume that you are referring to my comment on the cluing of Lud(gate).

I am not a Londoner, but I do know that Ludgate is in London. However, Gordius used ‘London gate’ for just Lud (so not Ludgate) and my question was: is that fair/right?

London has a lot of city gates but I can’t imagine someone cluing New or Ald by ‘London gate’.
Especially since all these ‘gates’ consist of one word.
Perhaps, Notting Hill for ‘London gate’ is more acceptable just like, for example, Golden Gate (for ‘West Coast bridge’) and Yellow (for ‘Cinese river’) – although the latter is quite tricky [I clearly remember discussions on a river themed puzzle in which it was one of the solutions].

I hope I made clear what I meant.
It was a question, not a statement.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Thu, 12 May 2011 12:00:43 +0000

Ludgate is in London. How else would you clue it?

By: Roger

Roger — Thu, 12 May 2011 09:38:27 +0000

Hi mhl. I read 16d more as a cryptic definition … the engraving on a tombstone.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Wed, 11 May 2011 21:46:24 +0000

As Davy said @24 “this was an excellent puzzle from Gordius who is often overly criticised”. No iffiness today, instead many smiles along the way.
To be honest, I can’t be bothered too much whether an ARMADILLO is toothless or not – if it’s not the definition is perhaps not completely right, but the clue as such works well. The same for the OFFERTORY BOX in 1d.

Highlights the politically flavoured REMODEL (11ac) and ILL-GOTTEN (14d).
Also very fine: YELLOWISH (17ac)
But Winner of the Day the unbeatable FORUM (8ac).

Last word in: INDULGE (18d) without understanding why.
Is it really fair/right to clue LUD with ‘London gate’?

Ian @18, you found that there were too many anagrams.
Well, I’ve counted 4.5 across and only 3 down.
Is that really too many?

One of the better Gordiuses.
Very enjoyable.

PS, after only having 9 blanks + G?B?E my PinC knew immediately that 27ac had to be UNINTELLIGIBLE [not the best of clues, she thought], but we weren’t sure enough to enter it.
Then I had a luminous idea. Could it perhaps be CLAAAARKGABLE?
“If this is it, you won’t get it” – would you?

By: Wolfie

Wolfie — Wed, 11 May 2011 19:13:53 +0000

Well spotted, Geoff @20! Despite being a zoology graduate I was not aware of the re-classification of armadillos. However, I would not be too hard on Gordius; animal taxonomy has always been fluid and often controversial, and even the on-line editions of the OED still assigns armadillos to the now defunct mammalian order Edentata. By analogy, I don’t think anyone would object to to the appearance of the word ‘Brontosaurus’ in a cryptic clue or solution, even though the genus was abolished many years ago and replaced by ‘Apatosaurus’. (What arcane topics we encounter through the medium of Guardian cryptics!)

By: tupu

tupu — Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:43 +0000

Hi Davy

Me too re ill-gotten @4

Hi Geoff

As Imentioned the other day, Araucaria got his homework completely right on these creatiures some time ago. It was 5th June last year.

By: Robi

Robi — Wed, 11 May 2011 16:38:14 +0000

Bob M@26; perhaps it depends on your religious persuasion; e.g.: ‘If you are considering visiting Foy Church then you can deposit your donation in the Church’s offertory box which is situated in the middle of the nave.’

By: Bob M

Bob M — Wed, 11 May 2011 15:30:38 +0000

This was a most entertaining puzzle with some amusing and clever clues. If I have any quibble, it is with 1 down; when I was a server – many years ago, I hasten to add – the Offertory was the bringing of the elements of the Mass to the altar, rather than the plate or the poor-box for contributions from the congregation, but perhaps I’m being too picky because I managed to finish another one.

Thank yous to everyone who commented – you make a puzzle even more enjoyable.

By: liz

liz — Wed, 11 May 2011 14:36:49 +0000

Davy@14

I did! (mention ILL-GOTTEN)

By: Davy

Davy — Wed, 11 May 2011 14:20:39 +0000

Thanks mhl,

I thought this was an excellent puzzle from Gordius who is often overly criticised. I’m surprised that no-one has mentioned ILL-GOTTEN as it’s a brilliant clue and so apposite. Thanks Gordius.