Comments on: Guardian 25324 – Paul

By: Huw Powell

Huw Powell — Thu, 19 May 2011 01:34:20 +0000

Oh, and I read 21 entirely as being about the tendon, pretending that the “fire of achilles” was a common name for the suffering associated with a ruptured tendon. And the plural version is probably four times as painful!

By: Huw Powell

Huw Powell — Thu, 19 May 2011 01:28:02 +0000

Great fun from Paul, and thanks UY for blogging it.

If I’d bothered to use OneLook I would have found RED NOSE DAY (which I think I have heard of once…) and finished every clue. But since I got that far without “tools” I felt just fine about giving up and coming here. I was lucky to have the slightest vague memory of “cornet” for ice cream cone, so when CORONET popped into my head I was able to understand why it was correct.

Some wonderful convoluted clues, all of which end up being strictly fair once parsed. Very nice.

COD had to be WATERPROOF for me, too. Or maybe it was NERVE ENDING?

By: nusquam

nusquam — Wed, 18 May 2011 13:08:41 +0000

@Eileen 34

It is not quite right to say that ‘the fire of Achilles’ doesn’t mean anything. In Iliad 18 Athena raises from Achilles’ head a fire which is compared to the flames from a sacked city. Hence Patrick Shaw-Stewart: ‘Stand in your trench, Achilles, flame-capped and shout for me.’

However, I rather doubt that the setter was expecting us to think of that, and I share the sense that it was a poor clue. I think Robi 36 is right to remind us that we all have an Achilles tendon, and maybe we have an Achilles heel too: hot on HIS heels is not required. But all the same…

By: Robi

Robi — Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:23 +0000

A bit late in the day, but I’ll add a comment about 21. If you forget about the classical allusion and just concentrate on anatomy, could not the fire of (or perhaps in) your Achilles tendon cause a feeling that is ‘hot on your heels?’ I don’t know whether that was what was intended – perhaps Paul can enlighten us?

By: Davy

Davy — Wed, 18 May 2011 08:41:34 +0000

Thanks UY,

I wasn’t going to comment on this puzzle but missed the later comments due to retiring early (in many senses).
Part of Paul’s attraction is his quirky constructions and the amusing images that he conjures up which admittedly are often on the naughty side but I would not say crude. At the end of the day, this is just a crossword and a bit of fun. No-one was hurt during its construction. So everyone, please lighten up and don’t be so straight-laced.
Thanks to Paul for a very entertaining crossword.

By: Eileen

Eileen — Wed, 18 May 2011 07:59:34 +0000

Hi Sil and tupu – if you’re still there [I was having a day off yesterday - and was still bearing Trojan War battle scars from last week! ]

I thought 21ac was a poor clue. ‘The fire of Achilles’ does not mean anything, unlike ‘the wrath of Achilles’, which is the theme of the Iliad. I only know the version that has his mother, Thetis, dipping him in the infernal River Styx to make him invulnerable – to my shame, I hadn’t heard tupu’s fire version, but I don’t think it adds credibility to the clue, which, I think, relies solely, as tupu says, on free association: I would bet that most people, given ‘Achilles’ in a word association test / game, would respond with ‘heel’.

In any case, ‘the fire of Achilles’ would be ‘hot on HIS heels’.

By: tupu

tupu — Tue, 17 May 2011 21:56:00 +0000

Ps
NB the clue is in the form of a question.

By: tupu

tupu — Tue, 17 May 2011 21:52:38 +0000

Sil
I did not offer an explanation, only a possibly relevant allusion. The clue does not work strictly logically – more by free association – as far as I can see.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Tue, 17 May 2011 21:43:42 +0000

muck @29, thanks, but UY only refers to the well-known spot as such, which the clue does too of course, but we didn’t understand the ‘fire’ bit (in connection with Achilles) and moreover the use of the word ‘of’ here.
tupu’s explanation makes a bit more sense, but, alas my dear friends, it still doesn’t really work for us – as a cryptic crossword clue, that is [even though the solution was obvious enough and, as I said, our first entry].
Again, no problemo – as so very often the cd-antenna failed to work properly ….

By: tupu

tupu — Tue, 17 May 2011 21:23:36 +0000

Sil.
‘but I do not want to take the discussion any further than this’.
Me neither, thanks.

Re Achilles – one version of his story is that his mother tried to burn away his mortality by immersing him in fire and his heel was not treated and became his weakness. Another version talks of his being held by the heel by his mother in water. Cf.
http://thanasis.com/achilles.htm

A line in Homer mentions fire flashing on his spear as he goes after Hector.