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	<title>Comments on: Independent 7,739/Phi</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Graham Pellen</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-168193</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Pellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2011 06:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=32588#comment-168193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Allan_C@19 is undoubtedly correct.

K&#039;sD@7 et al I have just completed this in Adelaide on 26 August (we get the Indy crossword daily but three weeks behind its UK publication) and 5D was indeed enumerated as 5,3 in our local paper, The Advertiser.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allan_C@19 is undoubtedly correct.</p>
<p>K&#8217;sD@7 et al I have just completed this in Adelaide on 26 August (we get the Indy crossword daily but three weeks behind its UK publication) and 5D was indeed enumerated as 5,3 in our local paper, The Advertiser.</p>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166788</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2011 07:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=32588#comment-166788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi redddevil

I realised my &#039;explanation&#039; was ambiguous when I wrote it: it&#039;s the convention to write omitted letters in lower case - and, unfortunately, lower case L looks rather like upper case I. Thanks, NMS - that&#039;s what I meant! :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi redddevil</p>
<p>I realised my &#8216;explanation&#8217; was ambiguous when I wrote it: it&#8217;s the convention to write omitted letters in lower case &#8211; and, unfortunately, lower case L looks rather like upper case I. Thanks, NMS &#8211; that&#8217;s what I meant! <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Allan_C</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166787</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan_C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2011 07:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[K&#039;s D and superkiwigirl @ 7 &amp;8: For 14d I (eventually) read &#039;dodgy&#039; as the definition and &#039;abandoned&#039; as the anagrind. At least a plausible explanation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K&#8217;s D and superkiwigirl @ 7 &amp;8: For 14d I (eventually) read &#8216;dodgy&#8217; as the definition and &#8216;abandoned&#8217; as the anagrind. At least a plausible explanation.</p>
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		<title>By: Tees</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166770</link>
		<dc:creator>Tees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 23:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Well, yes Superkiwigirl, if you solve cryptic puzzles in The Indy, and/or in other esteemed journals, it is worth keeping an eye out for such thingies. Setters like doing thingies whenever they can, otherwise their lives would become too simple. Complexity, yum yum. That&#039;s why I like prog, for example. Now, before I move on, I&#039;m just going to write &#039;Bungle&#039;s Twanger&#039;: please don&#039;t be alarmed, or we&#039;ll have to check your batteries once a year (this sentence is not relevant to any discussion I know about).

To my way of thinking, a &#039;pangrammatic lipopgram&#039; is a contradiction in terms: crosswording pangrams have all the letters of the alphabet, while crosswording lipograms omit a letter (or group of letters) cos that&#039;s what the &#039;lip&#039; bit (stem of Greek leipein, to omit) means. Away from Gridland, several books have been written lipogrammatically. Ernest Vincent Wright wrote something called Gadsby, which has 50,000 words in it ... none among them contains the letter E.

Let&#039;s wind him up: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! There.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yes Superkiwigirl, if you solve cryptic puzzles in The Indy, and/or in other esteemed journals, it is worth keeping an eye out for such thingies. Setters like doing thingies whenever they can, otherwise their lives would become too simple. Complexity, yum yum. That&#8217;s why I like prog, for example. Now, before I move on, I&#8217;m just going to write &#8216;Bungle&#8217;s Twanger&#8217;: please don&#8217;t be alarmed, or we&#8217;ll have to check your batteries once a year (this sentence is not relevant to any discussion I know about).</p>
<p>To my way of thinking, a &#8216;pangrammatic lipopgram&#8217; is a contradiction in terms: crosswording pangrams have all the letters of the alphabet, while crosswording lipograms omit a letter (or group of letters) cos that&#8217;s what the &#8216;lip&#8217; bit (stem of Greek leipein, to omit) means. Away from Gridland, several books have been written lipogrammatically. Ernest Vincent Wright wrote something called Gadsby, which has 50,000 words in it &#8230; none among them contains the letter E.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s wind him up: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! There.</p>
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		<title>By: nmsindy</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166769</link>
		<dc:creator>nmsindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=32588#comment-166769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s that entirely = ALL so almost entirely is AL ie take off the final letter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s that entirely = ALL so almost entirely is AL ie take off the final letter.</p>
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		<title>By: redddevil</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166768</link>
		<dc:creator>redddevil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=32588#comment-166768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice one Cumbrian - I shall try and use mingle glitch!
I still don&#039;t understand how almost entirely becomes AL despite Eileeen&#039;s explanation (I can see it&#039;s almost ALI entirely but what&#039;s that to do with the clue?) so must be the time of night.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice one Cumbrian &#8211; I shall try and use mingle glitch!<br />
I still don&#8217;t understand how almost entirely becomes AL despite Eileeen&#8217;s explanation (I can see it&#8217;s almost ALI entirely but what&#8217;s that to do with the clue?) so must be the time of night.</p>
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		<title>By: Cumbrian</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166766</link>
		<dc:creator>Cumbrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve just had another look at the grid and smack down the middle is MINGLE GLITCH. AFAIK, this isn&#039;t a term in common use, but it deserves to be. A possible example of a mingle glitch: the host at a party unknowingly introducing you to your ex who dumped you the previous week for your best friend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just had another look at the grid and smack down the middle is MINGLE GLITCH. AFAIK, this isn&#8217;t a term in common use, but it deserves to be. A possible example of a mingle glitch: the host at a party unknowingly introducing you to your ex who dumped you the previous week for your best friend.</p>
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		<title>By: superkiwigirl</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166764</link>
		<dc:creator>superkiwigirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Phi - I came back to this after dinner without refreshing the page, and didn&#039;t realise that you had posted a comment in the meanwhile.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Phi &#8211; I came back to this after dinner without refreshing the page, and didn&#8217;t realise that you had posted a comment in the meanwhile.</p>
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		<title>By: superkiwigirl</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166763</link>
		<dc:creator>superkiwigirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=32588#comment-166763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good Evening All, and especially Tees @ 11:

I bet that Lewis Carroll had a clever way of saying this (and maybe an appropriate quote from Alice will occur to me in the early hours tomorrow) but having just got my head around the idea that I should be searching for Ninas and other, less sophisticated, themes in addition to the apparent job in hand - solving cryptic clues - it seems that I ought  to be looking not just for &quot;pangrams&quot; (agreed, Ali, the U, V, X, Y and Z seemed to indicate this) but also &quot; lipograms&quot; and even &quot;pangrammatic lipograms or lipogrammatic pangrams&quot; as Wikipedia suggests?

For my part, I was thrilled to be introduced to the &quot;inner circle&quot; of Ninas etc. on discovering 15/2, these do after all add such a further dimension to the puzzles and in consequence to one&#039;s enjoyment of them. But &quot;pangrammatic lipograms or lipogrammatic pangrams&quot; - did Phi intend such an exercise today (or, try as he might, did the letter &quot;Q&quot; simply prove to be ultimately elusive)?  Perhaps these devices are all to be considered as just another weapon in the setters&#039; armoury and something which we should always be considering when engaged upon a &quot;solve&quot;?  I&#039;d be grateful if Phi (or any other of our setters) would care to comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Evening All, and especially Tees @ 11:</p>
<p>I bet that Lewis Carroll had a clever way of saying this (and maybe an appropriate quote from Alice will occur to me in the early hours tomorrow) but having just got my head around the idea that I should be searching for Ninas and other, less sophisticated, themes in addition to the apparent job in hand &#8211; solving cryptic clues &#8211; it seems that I ought  to be looking not just for &#8220;pangrams&#8221; (agreed, Ali, the U, V, X, Y and Z seemed to indicate this) but also &#8221; lipograms&#8221; and even &#8220;pangrammatic lipograms or lipogrammatic pangrams&#8221; as Wikipedia suggests?</p>
<p>For my part, I was thrilled to be introduced to the &#8220;inner circle&#8221; of Ninas etc. on discovering 15/2, these do after all add such a further dimension to the puzzles and in consequence to one&#8217;s enjoyment of them. But &#8220;pangrammatic lipograms or lipogrammatic pangrams&#8221; &#8211; did Phi intend such an exercise today (or, try as he might, did the letter &#8220;Q&#8221; simply prove to be ultimately elusive)?  Perhaps these devices are all to be considered as just another weapon in the setters&#8217; armoury and something which we should always be considering when engaged upon a &#8220;solve&#8221;?  I&#8217;d be grateful if Phi (or any other of our setters) would care to comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Phi</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/08/05/independent-7739phi/#comment-166758</link>
		<dc:creator>Phi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Puzzle set after I was reading a book on eponyms, so Cumbrian is right.  Six of them are symmetrically placed (Lister was a bonus, and doesn&#039;t quite fit the pattern, anyway) and I was pleasantly surpised to fit the long ones around them so readily.  AVOSET I have seen used, but it is less common.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Puzzle set after I was reading a book on eponyms, so Cumbrian is right.  Six of them are symmetrically placed (Lister was a bonus, and doesn&#8217;t quite fit the pattern, anyway) and I was pleasantly surpised to fit the long ones around them so readily.  AVOSET I have seen used, but it is less common.</p>
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