Comments on: Financial Times 13,788 / Redshank

By: Paul B

Paul B — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:59:29 +0000

Yes Pelham, BOTTLE PARTY is correct. Perhaps as a setter I’m more forgiving towards such techniques, which for better or worse I regard as excellent, in that the standard way of doing things can get boring. Plus of course I was weened on Perkin-era Grauniad puzzles, whose more able cluepersons departed the norm with pneumatic regularity.

By: Pelham Barton

Pelham Barton — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 13:45:50 +0000

Sil @19: We can certainly agree to differ on where our preferences lie, but I agree that we should not lose sight of the fact that this was a very enjoyable puzzle.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 13:41:35 +0000

Thank you, Redshank, for explaining 11ac.
From a construction POV it had to be like that. Many solvers might see it as a kind of indirect anagram. Personally, I cannot be bothered too much about things like that when the solution is so very clear (as it is here).
And yes, what you say about Explosion etc sounds fair enough to me.

In the meantime, I hope this mini-discussion doesn’t take us away from the fact that this was another highly enjoyable Redshank puzzle.
Many thanks for that.

By: Pelham Barton

Pelham Barton — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 10:30:40 +0000

Redshank @17: Thank you for clearing that up. The statement I quoted suggests a line that is more purist than I would expect – and I tend to think of myself as towards the purist end of the spectrum. I am quite happy with T for time as part of the anagram fodder, for example.

Having said that, I do think that asking us to find the name of a steelmaker and then include that in an anagram is too much for a daily newspaper crossword, even when there is no doubt about the intended answer, and even when the letters taken from that name stay together in the same order.

Paul B @10: Would it be BOTTLE PARTY? This sort of clue can be fun as a very occasional relief from more orthodox clues, and in a real crossword one would have the checked letters to help, but I would not want to see more than one such clue in any crossword.

By: Redshank

Redshank — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 09:25:25 +0000

Rishi/Sil/Shuchi/PB: in defence of what now looks like a less than felicitously worded clue, all I can say is that at the time it seemed OK – ‘By’ containing (‘engaging’) an anagram (‘spread’) of ‘krup(p)’ and ‘can t’. PB’s recall of what I said in another place is frighteningly forensic, but it isn’t quite what I meant then. Nonetheless that statement may indeed turn out to be a hostage to fortune.

Sil: not all thematic answers have to have clues that include cross-references. So 7d, 14d and 21d don’t, making them tougher, I think. Anyway, isn’t it nice sometimes to chance on a connection you weren’t expecting?

Lenny: so far I’ve tried to keep the FT’s readership in mind when setting puzzles, but sometimes wonder if they’d prefer ‘something completely different’ to divert their minds from such currently depressing subjects. What do you think?

By: Pelham Barton

Pelham Barton — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 07:48:44 +0000

shuchi @15: crossing comments. I am sure your construction is the intended one, but you seem to be using ‘spread’ as indicating both anagram and containment.

By: shuchi

shuchi — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 07:36:36 +0000

@Sil: Re 11a

I read ‘engaging’ as the outer container indicator, and ‘can, with time, spread’ as ‘CAN+T spread (around KRUP[p])’. That gives:

BY around { (CANT)* around KRUP[p] }

@Rishi: Wouldn’t that make it an indirect anagram?

By: Pelham Barton

Pelham Barton — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 07:36:00 +0000

Sil and Rishi: You are right, there is definitely a problem with 11ac, now I look at it again. I think the clue needs at least one more containment indicator.

Rishi’s explanation requires us to identify a steelmaker, remove the last letter, and then include that as part of the anagram fodder. I find it hard to accept that Redshank would ask us to do that, given a comment he made (as Radian in the Independent) in July of this year. See comment 15 at this link:

http://fifteensquared.net/2011/07/14/independent-7721radian/

By: Rishi

Rishi — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 04:18:01 +0000

Sil

Re 11a

Probably there is no container-content. It might be just an anagram.

By – BY
engaging – (mere connector suggesting an add-on)
steelmaker almost – KRUP[p]
can, – CAN
with – (another add-on)
time, – T
— so we have BYKRUPCANT —
spread – anag ind
6d – def (BUST)

The surface reading is tortuous.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 22:11:20 +0000

… it didn’t TAKE that much time …
… Apart FROM that …
Sorry – I’m just a bloody foreigner