Comments on: Independent 7775 by Phi

By: Rishi

Rishi — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:24:17 +0000

Few educated people in India would know ‘water = quality’, but certainly they would know the expression “of the first water” and would be perfectly understood.

By: Fyveashe

Fyveashe — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:48:24 +0000

The quality of diamonds is assessed according to transucence – the nearer to water the better the quality – hence the expression diamond of the first water. I too thought 5d was a bit naughty. Perhaps I’m old fashioned but I expect clues and answers to be based on widely available knowledge. The meaning of Lustrum can be found once you’ve worked it out but DAC – I think not!! I was foxed by 1d as I’ve always known it as Corona Austrina and had to resort to Wikipedia. I never use anagram solvers or crossword dictionaries – there seems no point – the fun is in teasing out the answers from the clues on the page – it’s all there if you look for it (not that I can always see it of course!) A good puzzle for all that – thanks Phi!

By: Phi

Phi — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:23:57 +0000

Water = quality is in Chambers, specifically in the phrase cited above – not much used otherwise, I’d say, but still just in common parlance. Using Dac – well, I wouldn’t do it regularly, but it seems OK on a blue moon basis – reasonable assumption of the mental baggage of a solver. Fails the ‘but there’s always someone doing a puzzle for the first time’ test, of course, but if we kept that as a key determinant, then I could get away with reusing old chestnuts all the time!

Bamberger – of course you can use a dictionary. No setter can assume every word they use is in every solver’s vocabulary (not all the ones I stick into a puzzle I can swear hand-on-heart to have used recently, if at all – PELVIFORM comes to mind as a recent example) but the trick then is to write the clue so that the solvers can convince themselves they know it really. And at that point, recourse to the dictionary is not an admission of defeat, more of success. Keep at it – the percentages you’ve been reporting have been steadily increasing, even if you haven’t felt it to be so.

By: flashling

flashling — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 01:11:56 +0000

@all for bamberger, the general silence means yes we do (except me, honest guv! do you really think I knew lustrum was 5 years of penitance after a census) @Phi would like the water/quality bit cleared up please – and any other theme I missed.

By: ele

ele — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 20:07:46 +0000

to Bamberger@15. I wouldn’t claim I’d solved the daily Indy if I’ve had to use an anagram solver or the reveal button, although sometimes I’ll use them just to give me peace of mind if I get completely stuck and I’m on the point of giving up. It can be helpful in getting you past what seems an insuperable barrier, when looking at it till your head hurts has had no effect. As msindy says, it’s supposed to be enjoyable, and if you just need to ‘cheat’ on one clue to get the rest of the puzzle done so what.

I think it’s entirely fair to look up a word in the dictionary to check its meaning if you’ve worked it out from the wordplay or made a good guess but aren’t familiar with its meaning. I wouldn’t count that as a failure at all.

By: Bamberger

Bamberger — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:14:31 +0000

Re 12 I assumed that an unaided solve was not using any aids at all ie no anagrams solvers, no crossword solvers (by which I mean you plug in ?a?k? and see what the possibilities are), no dictionaries. Of course if you just have a?????? no crossword solver is going to help you.

So do most people actually use aids?

By: nmsindy

nmsindy — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:47:33 +0000

Re flashling at #13, so do I, but I’ll go for help when completely stuck – not always immediately possible. It depends on where one is solving!

By: flashling

flashling — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:43:58 +0000

@NMS #12, I try and always solve completely unaided, but when it comes to the blog I generally check up up anything I’m uncertain of as I was say, for puppet meaning creature. Couldn’t find water = quality though…

By: nmsindy

nmsindy — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:31:34 +0000

PS Re Bamberger’s comments at #8, I think it is fair to say that on average the Indy is a bit harder than the FT. With practice, you will solve more esp if you already solve 25%. I’m not sure if ‘unaided’ means (a) I did not look up the answer eg by pressing ‘reveal’ (or, say, coming to this site) or (b) I did not look at dicts or other reference sources. I think (b) would apply only to those entering speed solving competitions (of whom I’d remain in awe, but I would guess that, compared solvers in general, are very few in number).

The most important question IMHO is “Did you enjoy the puzzle?”. If you did, the puzzle was surely fair and, if you had to consult something to track down an unfamiliar word, so what?

By: ele

ele — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:27:44 +0000

Thanks flashling for the blog and Phi for another great puzzle. Especially liked 20ac and 26ac is one of my favourite clues in a long time – made me smile. Did anyone else notice that 20ac can also be arranged to give RADON SHIELD – which was my first attempt and had me worried.