Comments on: Independent 7,808 / Scorpion

By: RatkojaRiku

RatkojaRiku — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:14:38 +0000

Thanks, Kathryn’s Dad, for spotting Black Magic – I didn’t care for them as a child, but I rather like them now

An interesting debate on the 2/5, and whether or not having a theme sufficiently compensates the solver for having fewer checked letters. All I would say is that, despite noticing the theme while still solving this puzzle, trying to slot names of confectionery products into the grid didn’t in itself lead me to any answers: it was only after solving the clues per se that I realised that some of the solutions were also chocolate bars, etc.

@ Pelham Barton: I too wondered about RR being used for limousine.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:07:01 +0000

Dastardly Don ‘I’ll knock your lights out’ Manley, eh? Gor lumme.

By: Quixote

Quixote — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 08:27:48 +0000

I wish I could agree. It’s insiders that spot themes and ninas. Unless they are spelt out to the outsiders (ie the majority of potential solvers) those outsiders will be at a disadvantage. I fear that the insider tail is in danger of wagging the more substantial outsider dog, but one has to respect the editor’s judgement in these matters (much as my Church Times setters have to toe the line with me — I’ve just knocked a 2/5 pair on the edge to a 2/4 pair within the last hour!).

By: Paul B

Paul B — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:34:08 +0000

I’m also a bit squeamish when it comes to grids that literally block access to the corners, or offer scant checking in certain lights. But where there’s a theme (usually the very reason for the grid ‘optimisation’) solvers can find themselves more than amply compensated. I think Scorpion is generous in that respect today.

By: flashling

flashling — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:05:30 +0000

@Stella/Quixote, yes I agree but it’s part of the Indy allowing setters unusual grids. Today’s puzzle had me beat I’ll admit, I’m not a chocolate fan, but that’s not really of any consequence, just got beat in the 30 mins I normally allow on a weekday. Choccy bar humbug indeed, thanks RR and scorpion.

By: Stella Heath

Stella Heath — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:46:01 +0000

Interesting comment from a setter, Q!

By: Quixote

Quixote — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:13:44 +0000

Tougher than yesterday, for me, and how I hate seeing this 2/5 checking becoming an acceptable norm in Indy thematics!

By: Lenny

Lenny — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:14:09 +0000

I found this a struggle to finish. As RR says, this is a tricky grid with lots of unchecked first letters. In addition many answers have less than 50% of their letters checked, including four examples of the dreaded 2 out of 5s. I suppose you can justify the difficulty of the grid because the hidden theme makes it easier to guess the answer. Since I did not spot the theme, all I can say is Bah, humbug!

By: Allan_C

Allan_C — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 14:50:25 +0000

There’s also a possible reference to the theme in the clue to 11a – “expressed in calories”. Yes, quite!

And 4d was definitely for the less young. Remember the adverts in Boys’ Own (of fond memory) – “Reg rides a Raleigh”? Come to think of it, Boys’ Own used to have a fairly simple cryptic crossword which must have been what started me on the cruciverbal trail.

By: Stella Heath

Stella Heath — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 14:24:30 +0000

I didn’t see the theme until I received the congratulatory message on completing the puzzle, which presumably those of you who do the paper version haven’t seen: instead of the usual “Congratulations” it said “Sweet! You have …”

It wouldn’t have helped me to have seen it beforehand, anyway, as I’ve never had a sweet tooth.