Comments on: Guardian 25,475 – Enigmatist

By: Van Winkle

Van Winkle — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:06:11 +0000

Practical difference between Enigmatist and other setters of that ilk … with others the more common experience is to solve a clue and think “oh, clever me!”; with Enigmatist it is to not solve a clue and think “on, clever you!”.

By: Tony Davis

Tony Davis — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:34:43 +0000

I returned today to see if there had been any response to my comment #46 and was surprised that my little tantrum had provoked so many replies. John H, I’m sorry; I withdraw the word ‘pathetic’, and apologise for having allowed my frustration at being outwitted to overcome my normal good manners.

I stand by my choice of ‘unsatisfactory’ to describe ‘counter’ as a synonym for ‘man’ in 12dn, and would apply it also to 10ac, where my objection is not so much to ‘enders’ as to ‘hon’ for ‘love’ – a ‘bit of a stretch’, to echo yogdaws #21, with whom I agree about 13ac (even though I must confess to being an ‘Oxbridge type’).

togo #51 – I did know what ‘divers’ means, and still think it is not a good anagram indicator. However, in future I shall try to exercise the circumspection which you recommend and to be more constructive in my comments.

By: eimi

eimi — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:57:54 +0000

This isn’t my fight, but I’d certainly hesitate to call that argument ‘pathetic’ as I would anything else on this site. On this day of all days, it might be a bit naive, but “what’s so funny about peace, love and understanding?” Let’s not use the P-word please.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:41:16 +0000

If I called a comment by Polly Toynbee ‘pathetic’ nobody would raise an eyebrow.
If I wrote that PT was pathetic that would be unnecessary,uncalled for and rude.
Tony called a clue ‘pathetic’ (I don’t agree) which is quite legitimate.

By: John H

John H — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:27:56 +0000

RCWhiting and togo (49 and 50),

thank you for saying what you said. The point about blogs is the exchange of views. For some too easy, for some too difficult – that’s the nature of crosswords.

I jumped in because of the use of a certain word – ‘pathetic’. I spend a lot of time on wording my clues precisely, and my puzzles are checked by two solvers before I send them.

Bodgel’s post above sums up how to write a post. I think I speak for all setters (and we are not gods or goddesses) when I say that this is the kind of posting that we read. Critical, yet constructive.

I really would like a communication, publically or privately, that answers my question above #46. Tony?

By: Bodgel

Bodgel — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:34:53 +0000

Late as usual, since once I start one I do my damnedest to finish … which I failed to do. Got 13 in, and three correctly guessed but not in, because I couldn’t be sure from the clue that those answers were correct. I see no-one has commented on 7d.

Isn’t it a reasonably good rule to define a fair clue, that if you think of the answer (and you aren’t baffled by clever wordplay) then you can be pretty sure that it is right? The answer to 7d is a remark – well yes, as any phrase generally is. And it has something to do with throwing things away. Surely fairness demands a stronger connection than that? A true cryptic definition makes you laugh and say “what a clever way of putting it”. No laugh here.

I was never going to finish anyway of course – without dictionary or internet (well you’ve got to have some rules) potoroo, picaroon and Henderson were bound to elude me.

By: togo

togo — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:24:32 +0000

Tony D. I support RCW in encouraging you to challenge.

But John H has shown you something that happens a lot: there are meanings and constructions that we sometimes don’t know – in this case ‘divers’, which I happened to know – though I’m caught out frequently enough. I might also have pointed out that the word ‘man’ for “counter”, a piece on a board in a board game, has a long history.

I think a degree of circumspection, rather than letting the impatience spill into words like ‘pathetic’, is always sensible… Challenge yes, rubbish no, I suggest.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:20:41 +0000

Tony D @46
Ignore any complaints and criticise away. Nobody has to agree with you (I don’t) but the setters are not gods, an impression you might get if you read this MB often.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:17:44 +0000

MrC.@35
We all started off by being useless,the only way to get better is to attempt more. Practice makes perfect, or at least better.
Another alternative is to practise on easier cryptics (The Guardian is generally considered one of the more difficult dailies). Personally, when I started many years ago, I thought that the Daily Telegraph was easier and I had a coworker who bought it so I could have a free solve each day.

By: John H

John H — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:57:40 +0000

Excuse me, Tony #46.

From Chambers Thesaurus:

divers (adjective)

varying, varied, various, different, many, numerous, several, some, miscellaneous, sundry

Pray tell – what other clues were ‘pathetic’?