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	<title>Comments on: The Guardian No 25,477 by Araucaria</title>
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	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Huw Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174366</link>
		<dc:creator>Huw Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 00:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whew.  Put me down in the &quot;for&quot; column.  A tour de force indeed.  I started messing with this Friday night, I think, solving approximately zero clues, and gaining a rising trepidation due to the bizarre cluing at 8/20 and the complex interlinking of clues.

Worked some more on the &quot;simple&quot; (unlinked etc.) clues Saturday, got a few written in, took a break and enjoyed Paul&#039;s Prize for a couple of hours.  Filed that and got back to the Reverend.

Spent most of the afternoon, on and off, picking off a clue here, a clue there, slapping myself for ones that should have been easy... 11 and 22a both sent me in wrong directions, since I was thinking of the magazine and the lumberjack.

Eventually after an inkless hour I used onelook to decipher 13d from one checking letter.  I have different standards for different setters on how long I will struggle before using various tools - with anyone I&#039;ll go to wikipedia to verify a person&#039;s name I have worked out, say.  And with heavily themed puzzles I don&#039;t mind doing the research after an hour or two&#039;s immersion - one that comes to mind was a Waterloo/Nelson themed puzzle a while ago - having the hard clues in mind, I had to spend a good hour or two reading encyclopedia articles on the topic, with the occasional &quot;aha!&quot; coming along the way.  On the other hand, I&#039;d always at least hope to finish a Rufus or an Everyman on my own.

I got about half the parsing of 8/20 - tried to research &quot;PG&quot; and this meaning, sadly, is not on the wikipedia page.

Whew.

Peter @ 12, I suspect &quot;in full fig&quot; might be a Biblical derivation.

Derek @ 50, while I feel your pain - yes, these three, Enigmatist (hated), Boatman (loved), and this one (loved) could all easily have been run on a Saturday - there is a delicate balance between providing fifteen minutes of scribbling in answers and 5 hours of delightful challenge.  I might suggest that on tough days (especially runs of tough days) either hitting the archives or another paper like the Herald (on line or at the newsstand).  And they were all harder than this week&#039;s Prize (liked).

So... Stella, thanks for the hard-working blog, and Duncan (and others) for filling in some of the blanks, and especially to Araucaria for continuing to come up with new ways to monkey up the structure of a puzzle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whew.  Put me down in the &#8220;for&#8221; column.  A tour de force indeed.  I started messing with this Friday night, I think, solving approximately zero clues, and gaining a rising trepidation due to the bizarre cluing at 8/20 and the complex interlinking of clues.</p>
<p>Worked some more on the &#8220;simple&#8221; (unlinked etc.) clues Saturday, got a few written in, took a break and enjoyed Paul&#8217;s Prize for a couple of hours.  Filed that and got back to the Reverend.</p>
<p>Spent most of the afternoon, on and off, picking off a clue here, a clue there, slapping myself for ones that should have been easy&#8230; 11 and 22a both sent me in wrong directions, since I was thinking of the magazine and the lumberjack.</p>
<p>Eventually after an inkless hour I used onelook to decipher 13d from one checking letter.  I have different standards for different setters on how long I will struggle before using various tools &#8211; with anyone I&#8217;ll go to wikipedia to verify a person&#8217;s name I have worked out, say.  And with heavily themed puzzles I don&#8217;t mind doing the research after an hour or two&#8217;s immersion &#8211; one that comes to mind was a Waterloo/Nelson themed puzzle a while ago &#8211; having the hard clues in mind, I had to spend a good hour or two reading encyclopedia articles on the topic, with the occasional &#8220;aha!&#8221; coming along the way.  On the other hand, I&#8217;d always at least hope to finish a Rufus or an Everyman on my own.</p>
<p>I got about half the parsing of 8/20 &#8211; tried to research &#8220;PG&#8221; and this meaning, sadly, is not on the wikipedia page.</p>
<p>Whew.</p>
<p>Peter @ 12, I suspect &#8220;in full fig&#8221; might be a Biblical derivation.</p>
<p>Derek @ 50, while I feel your pain &#8211; yes, these three, Enigmatist (hated), Boatman (loved), and this one (loved) could all easily have been run on a Saturday &#8211; there is a delicate balance between providing fifteen minutes of scribbling in answers and 5 hours of delightful challenge.  I might suggest that on tough days (especially runs of tough days) either hitting the archives or another paper like the Herald (on line or at the newsstand).  And they were all harder than this week&#8217;s Prize (liked).</p>
<p>So&#8230; Stella, thanks for the hard-working blog, and Duncan (and others) for filling in some of the blanks, and especially to Araucaria for continuing to come up with new ways to monkey up the structure of a puzzle.</p>
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		<title>By: Denis</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174350</link>
		<dc:creator>Denis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the best.  The endless inventiveness in ways of clueing (which outrages some) is very enjoyable, though it can make for difficulty in starting - I wasn&#039;t able to do anything the first time I went through this one.  The linkages were varied and interesting too - better than a single theme which can make solving rather routine once one&#039;s got it. The occasional joke (Oesterreich /Ostrich) and the wide general knowledge seem fair, and  I don&#039;t complain when there are a few I don&#039;t know -with luck the cross-references will fill in. Agag I remembered from the name of a climb, Agag&#039;s Groove, in Glencoe that requires balance climbing on small holds:  &quot;And Agag came unto him delicately&quot; - a lovely  choice of adjectiven; this is from the Authorized Version - look on Google and see how inferior all later english translations are!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the best.  The endless inventiveness in ways of clueing (which outrages some) is very enjoyable, though it can make for difficulty in starting &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t able to do anything the first time I went through this one.  The linkages were varied and interesting too &#8211; better than a single theme which can make solving rather routine once one&#8217;s got it. The occasional joke (Oesterreich /Ostrich) and the wide general knowledge seem fair, and  I don&#8217;t complain when there are a few I don&#8217;t know -with luck the cross-references will fill in. Agag I remembered from the name of a climb, Agag&#8217;s Groove, in Glencoe that requires balance climbing on small holds:  &#8220;And Agag came unto him delicately&#8221; &#8211; a lovely  choice of adjectiven; this is from the Authorized Version &#8211; look on Google and see how inferior all later english translations are!</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174349</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well we bought the Guardian on Friday to occupy a 2hr 30min journey to London on the train. So disappointed that we couldn&#039;t even start the crossword apart from 3 solutions botton left.

Really enjoyed reading these comments though now we&#039;re back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well we bought the Guardian on Friday to occupy a 2hr 30min journey to London on the train. So disappointed that we couldn&#8217;t even start the crossword apart from 3 solutions botton left.</p>
<p>Really enjoyed reading these comments though now we&#8217;re back.</p>
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		<title>By: RCWhiting</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174244</link>
		<dc:creator>RCWhiting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed that this was much harder than last Saturday&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed that this was much harder than last Saturday&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: rrc</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174231</link>
		<dc:creator>rrc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i look forard to A&#039;s puzzles, delighted to see the compiler after I managed to biy a paper, and then for the ndext couple of hours began to despair because nothing substantial was going in  When I saw the answer was Pilgrims Progress I gave up
hence a real disappointment]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i look forard to A&#8217;s puzzles, delighted to see the compiler after I managed to biy a paper, and then for the ndext couple of hours began to despair because nothing substantial was going in  When I saw the answer was Pilgrims Progress I gave up<br />
hence a real disappointment</p>
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		<title>By: Stella Heath</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174229</link>
		<dc:creator>Stella Heath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For what it&#039;s worth, I found this tougher than yesterday&#039;s Boatman, but more accessible and enjoyable than Wednesday&#039;s Enigmatist, and I am the first to have seen 8/20 without the slightest idea of how it worked - as I say above, it took me about an hour to come up with some sort of explanation, and even then PG escaped me, much though I like their Tips :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I found this tougher than yesterday&#8217;s Boatman, but more accessible and enjoyable than Wednesday&#8217;s Enigmatist, and I am the first to have seen 8/20 without the slightest idea of how it worked &#8211; as I say above, it took me about an hour to come up with some sort of explanation, and even then PG escaped me, much though I like their Tips <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Davy</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174225</link>
		<dc:creator>Davy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Stella,

I&#039;m definitely on the &#039;for Araucaria&#039; side as he&#039;s always been the compiler that I&#039;m most in tune with although I rarely understand all his wordplay. I knew that PILGRIM&#039;S PROGRESS was right but I couldn&#039;t for the life of me see why.

This puzzle is also the first one that I&#039;ve finished this week. I will hang on to Boatman and Enigmatist and finish them eventually. 

I think tomorrow&#039;s puzzle will almost certainly be Paul or if not I would guess Pasquale. Either way I&#039;ll be happy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Stella,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely on the &#8216;for Araucaria&#8217; side as he&#8217;s always been the compiler that I&#8217;m most in tune with although I rarely understand all his wordplay. I knew that PILGRIM&#8217;S PROGRESS was right but I couldn&#8217;t for the life of me see why.</p>
<p>This puzzle is also the first one that I&#8217;ve finished this week. I will hang on to Boatman and Enigmatist and finish them eventually. </p>
<p>I think tomorrow&#8217;s puzzle will almost certainly be Paul or if not I would guess Pasquale. Either way I&#8217;ll be happy.</p>
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		<title>By: gm4hqf</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174223</link>
		<dc:creator>gm4hqf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Stella, didn&#039;t get to this one till this evening.
I asked for an Araucaria puzzle yesterday thinking it might be a bit easier than the previous couple of days. Boy was I wrong.
Thanks for the explanation of 8, 20. The answers were obviously PILGRIMS PROGRESS but I couldn&#039;t work it out from the clues.
Never heard of King Agag either, though again it was obvious. Starting to think that I am losing my touch and should take a long holiday!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Stella, didn&#8217;t get to this one till this evening.<br />
I asked for an Araucaria puzzle yesterday thinking it might be a bit easier than the previous couple of days. Boy was I wrong.<br />
Thanks for the explanation of 8, 20. The answers were obviously PILGRIMS PROGRESS but I couldn&#8217;t work it out from the clues.<br />
Never heard of King Agag either, though again it was obvious. Starting to think that I am losing my touch and should take a long holiday!</p>
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		<title>By: LooseStool</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174221</link>
		<dc:creator>LooseStool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 20:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174221</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bunyan was a tinker. See: Kipling&#039;s &quot;The Holy War&quot;:
&lt;i&gt;A tinker out of Bedford,
A vagrant oft in quod,
A private under Fairfax,
A minister of God--

Two hundred years and thirty
  Ere Armageddon came
His single hand portrayed it,
  And Bunyan was his name!&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bunyan was a tinker. See: Kipling&#8217;s &#8220;The Holy War&#8221;:<br />
<i>A tinker out of Bedford,<br />
A vagrant oft in quod,<br />
A private under Fairfax,<br />
A minister of God&#8211;</p>
<p>Two hundred years and thirty<br />
  Ere Armageddon came<br />
His single hand portrayed it,<br />
  And Bunyan was his name!</i></p>
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		<title>By: stumped</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/11/11/the-guardian-no-25477-by-araucaria/#comment-174214</link>
		<dc:creator>stumped</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=36689#comment-174214</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Derek @50 Good point. I found last Saturday&#039;s &quot;prize&quot; much easier than this.

tupu @49. One of 8,20 in isolation would have been ridiculously unfair, together, especially with the run on into 22a, they were gettable. I can picture A with a sly grin. I haven&#039;t been back doing cryptics long enough to have any particular preferences so name of setter doesn&#039;t sway me. Maybe it&#039;s just that E&#039;s puzzle baffled me :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek @50 Good point. I found last Saturday&#8217;s &#8220;prize&#8221; much easier than this.</p>
<p>tupu @49. One of 8,20 in isolation would have been ridiculously unfair, together, especially with the run on into 22a, they were gettable. I can picture A with a sly grin. I haven&#8217;t been back doing cryptics long enough to have any particular preferences so name of setter doesn&#8217;t sway me. Maybe it&#8217;s just that E&#8217;s puzzle baffled me <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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