Never knowingly undersolved.

Independent 7828 by Klingsor

Posted by flashling on November 17th, 2011


I’ve got a few problems with the blog today, not entirely due to Klingsor’s clues – I’ve misplaced my glasses so reading clues, solving and typing up are all likely to be error prone as I’m blind bat man.. Note 28ac has been corrected in the dead tree version, I saw this morning an on line version where the word order was wrong.

OK I can’t see ninas, themes or pangrams but then I wouldn’t today, there’s 1 I can’t get.  So sorry this will be a less explanatory blog than I normally try. I found this very hard in places indeed.


1 AT ONCE C(on) in ATONE
4 SHOREMAN Horseman (one on a Bay) with S(well) moving to the front
10 GAP YEAR No AD (nowadays) in [PAY GR(ad)E]*
11 LETTING Can’t see this. we have T(enant) + TIN in LEG. About = leg I can’t see so help please.
12 NONO DD an Italian composer
13 ASSESSMENT S(uperflou)S + MEN in ASSET
15 TIT FOR TAT [TRAIT OF]* in T(hirs)T
16 ENEMA [MEAN(t) + (Famin)E]*
18 MINED (goos)E in MIND Eggs being mines/bombs
19 ERADICATE E(nergy) + C in RADIATE
20 TINTORETTO TINT + OR + E.T.(the only film setters seem to have heard of) + TO
26 OREGANO [EGO(n) RONA(y)]*
27 STROLLER ST(reet) + ROLLER(car)
28 STEELY TEE for support in SLY(arch) and steely meaning firm.
1 ARGON Hidden in unicellulAR GONococci
3 CREE No T in CRE(t)E
7 MAIZE Skirts (outsides of) Z(imbabw)E after MAI (French month)
15 TEMPTRESS TEMP(work for while) + TRESS (hair Samson’s strengthener)
17 ELABORATE E + LABOR(US spelling) + ATE
21 NICER NI(e)CE + R
23 EPOXY (O + PE(w)) rev +XY (axes)
24 DEFT FED up (bored)(rev) + (entertainmen)T


17 Responses to “Independent 7828 by Klingsor”

  1. Eileen says:

    Thanks, flashling – and well done, working under such difficulties!

    I couldn’t understand 11ac, either: it would make sense for me as ‘Being a landlord, set about acquiring tenant’s first money’.

    I’m glad to hear there’s now an explanation for 28ac.

    Favourite clues: 18, 26ac and 5,15 dn.

    Many thanks, Klingsor, for a quite challening puzzle!

  2. Eileen says:

    ‘challenging’, rather.

  3. Kathryn's Dad says:

    flashling, you’re priceless. If there was one day where losing your glasses would not be ideal, it’s when you’re blogging a Thursday Indy. But thank you anyway – I needed you for several today.

    This took me ages and I found it hard, but it was a really good puzzle that I got a lot of pleasure from completing. I liked ORPINGTON, because it was one of those ones where the setter led you to the answer, but then you had to check afterwards to see that it was right. The Egon Ronay clue was also very good.

    I couldn’t understand 28ac. I presume in the paper it’s ‘Arch embodies support firm?’ I can’t make it work the other way round.

  4. duncanshiell says:

    I’m struggling with 11a as well. The best I can offer is a two stage leap from ‘ABOUT’ to ‘ON’ to ‘LEG’ [the ON-side in cricket] but I don’t think it is a legitimate clue construction if that is the case.

    I decided 28a had to be STEELY despite the clue online seeming to imply that the definition was ‘arch’ or ‘support’ so I’m glad to read that the clue was wrong.

  5. Thomas99 says:

    I was also a bit confused about 11a. I wondered about “about” = “on” = “leg”, but that is most un-Klingsor-like. 28a still seems a bit odd too – are we saying “firm” is the definition, despite being in the middle, or is it a sort of semi-&lit, with “[embodying] firm support” as the definition? I thought of steely early, but was unsure and that’s really what made 24d so hard I think. I thought “deft” was rather brilliant when I finally got it.

    Oh – Snap, duncan. So what is going on? Is one or other of them a misprint? Or both? K’s Dad’s reordered version of 28 seems good cryptically but a bit improbable as a surface.

  6. flashling says:

    re 28 dead tree version is: Arch embodying support that’s firm.

    Still don’t get 11ac

  7. Thomas99 says:

    Thanks flashling – that explains 28a. Sorry I missed your point about it in the preamble. I agree 11a is still mysterious.

  8. Thomas99 says:

    Actually I’m now leaning towards Eileen’s explanation of 11a – adding “set” would make it a very good clue. Another misprint?

  9. Klingsor says:

    I owe apologies here for sloppy work. During the editing process I corrected 28 to

    Arch embodying support that’s firm (6)

    but the original appears in the online version – I’m glad that at least the paper carries the correct one.

    The original clue to 11a was

    Becoming a landlord on acquiring tenant’s first money? (7)

    It was an &lit – the def meant to imply that you don’t really start letting until you’ve received some wonga, and the wordplay exactly as Thomas99 parsed it. I was asked to look again at this and in the process of changing it I got it into what passes for my brain that I was clueing “on” as the container rather than “leg” (again Thomas99 is right here, though the leg/on/about connection wasn’t intentional). I guess that after resubmitting this clue nobody else noticed this either. Shame.

    Apologies again – I hope you all enjoyed the bits I managed to get right!


  10. eimi says:

    I’m the somebody that failed to notice the rewritten clue didn’t work, so apologies for that. I’m attempting to correct the online version at the moment.

  11. Pelham Barton says:

    Thanks Klingsor for a puzzle that had a lot of good clues and flashling for the blog. For me 23dn was one of those clues that I stared at for some minutes (with E-O– already filled in) and then the solution hit me – very satisfying.

    Thanks for the clarification on 28ac, for which I have nothing to add.

    11ac: It was clear that LETTING was the answer. I managed to parse it as “about” = “a bout” = LEG, thinking in terms of multi-stage sporting contests. This has two problems: firstly the synonym is at best approximate, and second there is an unsignalled requirement to split a clue word. I have been reading Klingor’s (or Alberich’s) website following general discussion, and he makes a case for the acceptability of splitting a clue word, when the pronunciation is not changed. I still do not like this device, but at least I can see some sense behind it with that limitation.

    24dn: I have to disagree with Thomas@5. I think asking us to convert “Bored” to “fed up” and then take the “up” as a reversal indicator, with only a question mark to hint that something strange is going on, is just asking too much for a weekday newspaper puzzle.

  12. Pelham Barton says:

    Clarification to 11: I meant to say that I was pleased that my construction at 11ac was wrong, but thought the general point was worth airing.

    Also, apologies for mistyping “Klingsor”.

  13. Allan_C says:

    Got there in the end despite clueing errors; as well I was doing the online version so I could check 11a and 28a. Mildly surprised only to find one musical reference (NONO) from Klingsor.

  14. Ian_J says:

    Thanks very much flashling and other contributors. I’m new to Fifteensquared and love the fact that I can cheat a little if I get completely stuck. 11a Always looked like letting but I held out from entering it because I couldn’t work out why!

  15. NealH says:

    I managed to finish this over lunch time apart from 28 and 24. After a few minutes studying tonight, I finally thought of steely, although the word order didn’t seem to make sense. I’m glad to find out that (for once) it wasn’t entirely might fault that I couldn’t get the answer easily. I completely failed to notice the fed up in 24 and assumed that def referred to the slang word, which for some reason I thought meant “bad” when it actually means the opposite.

    A nice puzzle but a shame about the two mistakes which made the ride a bit less smooth than it should have been.

  16. PeeDee says:

    11ac and 28ac look OK to me, so I guess the the online version must have been corrected by the time I attempted this.

    I was stuck on 24dn, thanks flashling for enlightening me. I think it is a fair clue (and a good one!).

  17. nmsindy says:

    Thanks, Klingsor, and flashling. I found this about average in difficulty – some very pleasing surfaces in clues with subtle misdirection. My favourites were AT ONCE and TINTORETTO.

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