Comments on: Independent 7853/Phi

By: flashling

flashling — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 23:46:07 +0000

Must admit I solved this in record time (sub 5 mins), spent longer looking for ninas/ghost themes. Anyway thanks Phi – gave me a chance to read the paper for a change After a few really tricky ones it makes a nice change. Wonder if bamberger tried it – not seen him around for a while.

By: Bertandjoyce

Bertandjoyce — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:35:08 +0000

A quick solve which was surprising given that it was Phi but now we know that it was an early offering it all makes sense. Funny how things go as we both thought of OT for the middle of 3d straight away and spent a moment wondering if there was a night flier called FOTA until the penny dropped!

We need an early night tonight so glad that it was over reasonably quickly!

Thanks Phi and John.

By: AndyB

AndyB — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:15:24 +0000

Thanks to Phi for dropping in. I’d simply say the main point is it seemed rather easier than normal Friday fare, judged on solving time. Fun though.

By: Kathryn's Dad

Kathryn's Dad — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:39:41 +0000

Thanks, Allan.

This cryptic stuff is even more complicated than I imagined. Will try to file that away for future reference, but can’t guarantee that it will pop up when I next need it …

By: Phi

Phi — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:37:39 +0000

There is a bit of a story about this grid. I unearthed it a few months ago, and noted it was dated 1983. I tidied up a few clues (but not that many) and sent it in. So it’s a very early example of a Phi. I was interested to see whether your comments would differ at all.

The oddest part was that the attached sheet was headed ‘American Crossword Puzzle Tournament Puzzle 2′. I have no recollection of ever being involved in that, and certainly this one was in a file of ‘Completed (more or less) but never used’ itself stored in a folder effectively called ‘Look at this sometime’. (Incidentally, you can imagine that BRADMAN was not used in the ‘American’ version – that was a restoration from an even earlier set of clues.)

Still if anyone was at the tournament they might be able to explain what might have happened to puzzle 1…

Other Underworld rivers: Phlegethon, and the one beginning with L, you know, the one that induced forgetfulness..Limpopo?

By: Allan_C

Allan_C — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:10:37 +0000

A lot to like in this crossword, MARMALADE and MATELOT among others.

K’s D: There were at least six rivers in the underworld of Greek mythology – Acheron and Styx were just two of them.

By: Thomas99

Thomas99 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:05:54 +0000

Re Acheron-
It might be best known nowadays from Freud’s invocation (quoting Virgil) on the title page of the Interpretation of Dreams:

Flectere si nequeo superos Acheronta movebo

meaning something like: “If I can’t bend the heavens to my will, I shall move Acheron, i.e. the underworld”. Great way to start the book. I can’t quite remember what Aeneas needs to stir up hell for in the original, but I think it was significant too.

By: Stella Heath

Stella Heath — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:39:00 +0000

Thanks John, and congratulations on explaining 3d. As for 4d, a little research gives both men as characters in “Henry IV”, though Westmoreland seems to lose protagonism in “part II”

By: Kathryn's Dad

Kathryn's Dad — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:48:48 +0000

Many thanks, John, and well done for parsing MOTH, which I never would have.

Entertaining stuff from Phi as usual. Hard to choose a favourite today; it was all good. Thanks for the link to ACHERON, which I had never heard of so was pleased to get from the wordplay; I always thought Styx was the river in question, but classical mythology was never my strong point.

By: NealH

NealH — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:06:24 +0000

A nice quick solve, with just the explanation for 3 down evading me (those sort of clues always seem to catch me out).