Comments on: Guardian 25,540 – Pasquale

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:29:32 +0000

Well,Paul,I will stop there.I do not particularly enjoy discussions where I am patronised.
“Well, you’re right that it’s not a compound anagram, which is strong evidence indeed of your powers in parsing.”

By: matt

matt — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:25:20 +0000

Let (D) be the definition:
“…(X) gives (D), when (Y) is added”
is how you sometimes see it done.

By: matt

matt — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:22:46 +0000

Once in a blue moon I’ve seen definitions in the middle of a clue. I’ve never seen it cited as a rule before, only that (if you’re solving) it makes sense to look at beginning or end, as clue structures most commonly lead to that being where the definition is located. There have been several examples where this convention is not adhered to in Everyman crosswords.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:10:50 +0000

Well, you’re right that it’s not a compound anagram, which is strong evidence indeed of your powers in parsing. Just to recap, the point has been unequivocally made that the clue is a subtraction: I don’t think anyone has got so far away from reality as to call it an &lit (although someone did opine that it might be a cryptic definition).

But I digress. If it’s the *this* which is ‘unnecessary’ (#54), why does that same word survive in your suggested amendment ‘Civic dignitary would, on an isle, plant this tree’?

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:14:41 +0000

Paul
I am very familiar with compound anagrams (see my comments @Azed) and really enjoy them.
23d is of course not a compound anagram.
I assume that your attempt to include the ‘this’ is toimply that it is a &lit, but I think that would be a long stretch.
What makes it unnecessary is that it could be:
Civic dignitary would, on an isle, plant this tree.

By: Robi

Robi — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:32:24 +0000

P.S. re HIPPOCRATES – ‘Contrary to popular belief, the Hippocratic Oath is not required by most modern medical schools, although some have adopted modern versions that suit many in the profession in the 21st century. It also does not explicitly contain the phrase, “First, do no harm,” which is commonly attributed to it.’ This is from the US (NIH), and I don’t know whether it is the same in the UK.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:23:56 +0000

Indeed, as Gervase says there is nothing to prohibit the placing of a definition at any particular point so long as the whole idea works fairly. The unfamiliarity, which – it is slowly dawning upon me – appears to constitute the RCW concern, arises simply because one hardly ever sees this sort of construction in daily puzzles. Compound anagrams, OTOH, very often take the form ‘With X, this answer could be Y’.

By: dunsscotus

dunsscotus — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:09:59 +0000

NeilW@18. Thanks for your time; I agree with you on all points.

By: tommy

tommy — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:53:43 +0000

I read CAREERIST as CARE, ER (one, as her majesty would refer to herself) and 1ST. Probably not right but I liked it.

By: Gervase

Gervase — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:38:43 +0000

Re 23d: As Robi (@29) said, the word ‘this’ flags up where the definition is to be found in the clue – far more distinctly that putting it at either end without indication. There is nothing in ‘the rules’ which says that the definition has to be at one end of the clue. It would clearly be very unsatisfactory to stick a definition in the middle of a charade, but in a ‘reverse subtraction’ clue like this it seems perfectly reasonable.

And Pasquale is one of the current leaders of the Spanish Inquisition, so he would be unlikely to do anything heretical, even in such a heterodox publication as the Guardian.