Comments on: Guardian Prize 25,550 / Crucible

By: Tramp

Tramp — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:09:43 +0000

I’m late responding to this one. I enjoyed the puzzle a lot. My favourite was LOOKED IN (great surface). Super blog Eileen as well.

By: Andy D

Andy D — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:59:37 +0000

Enjoyable (almost entirely) – finished all but 24A on the day but it’s been lying around all week with 24A staring at me. I’d googled all sorts of diaries: batman, layman, gasman, barman etc.

Had another go yesterday and found the Gogol story, then “draper madman” finally found the TV series, which I now remember seeing the beginning of a couple of times.

Obscurity is indeed in the mind of the beholder so no complaints from me.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:46:22 +0000

Well,I did not watch any of the TV show but for a few weeks quite recently,it was all over the media. Reviewed positively in the press and on radio and TV but also referred to in comparison with a British ‘copy’ (which I also did not watch). It was hard to miss.
I was familiar with the title ‘Diary of a Madman’ although I have not knowingly read anything by either Gogol or Grogol.
The truth is that ‘obscurity’ is entirely in the memory of the beholder.

By: matt

matt — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:59:13 +0000

Hello Neil,

You’re right that the atmosphere has occasionally been a bit more antagonistic, recently. I guess there’s a balance to be struck: fun, robust debate with commenters putting forward their individual opinions on the one hand (something I love this site for); blazing (or icy) arguments with participants digging their heels in and refusing to concede the validity of alternative points of view on the other.

I think a lot of it is to do with language: as others have pointed out, tone of voice is hard to gauge online, and words like ‘shame’ or ‘ruin’ can come across as strident, and can quickly raise hackles.

By: NeilW

NeilW — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:55:27 +0000

If any of the last few commenters bother to revisit on a Sunday: the “obscurity” of 24 was the conjunction of the surname of the lead character of an American TV series with a Grogol short story with no other pointer than DIARY. My objection is not to obscurities in a prize puzzle – I expect and welcome them but there should be some chance of deducing the answer other than pure serendipity.

RCW – “Henry Fielding’s ‘Journal of a Voyage to Lisbon’ readership ???” How many of your 500,000 viewers of the TV Series have also read any Grogol do you suppose? (Oh, and normally solve the Guardian prize puzzles to completion?)

May I also say that I think that it is a “shame” that, of late, the aim of some contributors to this site seems to have shifted from constructive criticism of crosswords to destructive sniping at other posters.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:14:38 +0000

Well good for you, Dave. Obviously the setting of a Prize crossword assumes on the part of solvers greater or in some way easier access to information sources, and, like all normal people, you appear to opine that it is really quite ludicrous to demand absolute simplicity of a weekend puzzle. Isn’t it nice when people actually think about things a bit before posting?!

By: Dave Ellison

Dave Ellison — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:35:14 +0000

Well, I don’t mind these so called “obscurities” in Guardian Crosswords, as they can lead to interesting areas of which I was previously ignorant. As I think I have pointed out before, I read some Smollet as a result of a clue in the 1960s – though I wouldn’t read any more of him; and, likewise from a clue at a similar time, some Stephen Leacock, which has been a delight and pleasure ever since. I am sure there are others I have forgotten.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:47:03 +0000

Madmen audience 500,000 (not including me).
Henry Fielding’s ‘Journal of a Voyage to Lisbon’ readership ???

By: sidey

sidey — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:06:01 +0000

Dear Gervase, I pointed out earlier that the BBC4 television transmission of Mad Men was viewed by fewer people than an obscure Danish detective story.

You and Crucible presumably have seen it, the vast majority of the world hasn’t a clue that it exists let alone the name of a character in it.

Do stop.

You are embarrassing.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:05:51 +0000

Thanks all
This is what I call a prize crossword and expect one to be.
I agree with every word of Eileen’s comment.
Dave @15 Sadly,I think today’s would be a weak effort whichever order you were to tackle it.
Gervase @25 That all sounds very sensible.