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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 25,664 / Araucaria</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RCWhiting</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196668</link>
		<dc:creator>RCWhiting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I missed out the &#039;I&#039;, that&#039;s not like me, eh?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I missed out the &#8216;I&#8217;, that&#8217;s not like me, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: RCWhiting</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196662</link>
		<dc:creator>RCWhiting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have my own self-promulgated rule: when I have filled the grid am able to be certain that all solutions are correct. That&#039;s all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have my own self-promulgated rule: when I have filled the grid am able to be certain that all solutions are correct. That&#8217;s all.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: r_c_a_d</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196644</link>
		<dc:creator>r_c_a_d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a small comment - &quot;the CPR&quot; hardly resolves the ambiguity as my quick search threw up a list of 117 uses!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a small comment &#8211; &#8220;the CPR&#8221; hardly resolves the ambiguity as my quick search threw up a list of 117 uses!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: rhotician</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196643</link>
		<dc:creator>rhotician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[rho@24
&quot;indirect indirectness&quot; is precise only in the sense that it is tautologous. Think again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rho@24<br />
&#8220;indirect indirectness&#8221; is precise only in the sense that it is tautologous. Think again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: rhotician</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196641</link>
		<dc:creator>rhotician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 03:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RCW@23: My first thought

I am indeed not accusing the Rev of &quot;dishonest practice&quot;, but some would, or at least come close to it.

A Ximenean would pronounce him very &quot;unfair&quot;.

But words can, of course, have different senses in different contexts. I might say, down the pub, &quot;That fellow Whiting is very devious&quot;, which would be pejorative. &quot;That crossword setter Araucaria is very devious&quot; would be complimentary!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RCW@23: My first thought</p>
<p>I am indeed not accusing the Rev of &#8220;dishonest practice&#8221;, but some would, or at least come close to it.</p>
<p>A Ximenean would pronounce him very &#8220;unfair&#8221;.</p>
<p>But words can, of course, have different senses in different contexts. I might say, down the pub, &#8220;That fellow Whiting is very devious&#8221;, which would be pejorative. &#8220;That crossword setter Araucaria is very devious&#8221; would be complimentary!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: rhotician</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196640</link>
		<dc:creator>rhotician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 03:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry &quot;Yorkist element&quot; in 2 above should of course be &quot;Yorkist emblem&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry &#8220;Yorkist element&#8221; in 2 above should of course be &#8220;Yorkist emblem&#8221;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: rhotician</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196639</link>
		<dc:creator>rhotician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 03:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RCW@23

My first thought here was...but no, I&#039;d better leave that till later.

So on second thoughts - I agree with you entirely when you say you would expect any cryptic crossword to contain many &#039;indirect courses or means&#039;. In fact I would say a cryptic crossword must contain many &#039;indirections&#039;. &#039;Cryptic&#039; practically means &#039;indirect&#039;.

I was struggling with how to say what I meant when Sils intervened. The best I can come up with, in retrospect, is &#039;indirect indirectnesses&#039;. Not pretty, I think, but precise.

Perhaps I should stop pretending to have no opinions. First I must say nothing in this puzzle gave me any great difficulty in solving it. But I don&#039;t consider a puzzle completed until I&#039;ve parsed everything. (It&#039;s part of the pleasure.)

1.I have no problem with this type of themed puzzle. In fact I like it.

2.Indirect anagrams. The article in Wiki contains much of interest but in full it has much that is distracting. The relevant part here can be stated as &quot;Indirect anagrams are not used in the majority of cryptic crosswords.&quot; Well I can understand why. Another source gives an example: Measure of broken tree(4). (ACRE or MILE). I don&#039;t mind that there are two possible solutions, it&#039;s &#039;tree&#039; I dislike. Nearly as bad as &#039;plant&#039;, whose appearance in a clue always gives me a sinking feeling. The source classes this invalid. I don&#039;t presume to go so far, but I don&#039;t like it.

In  this puzzle I had got LANCASTER (fine) and YORKIST (with misgivings) so I come to &quot;4. Emblem of Lancaster moved altar back(7)&quot; Well &#039;altar back&#039; is clearly REREDOS, a word I only know from  crosswords. Hello! What we&#039;ve got here is an indirect anagram! First I&#039;ve ever seen! There&#039;ll be trouble over this. So next we have &quot;3. Yorkist element rendered differently(9)&quot; Well differently looks like an anagrind but No! It&#039;s the definition! And here&#039;s another hidden anagram! Two of them side by side and symetrically related to the theme. Brilliant! The man&#039;s a genius.

3. Indirect hidden answer. Hmm! Never seen that before either. Don&#039;t think I like it. The man&#039;s doing it on purpose! At least he has the decency to include &#039;the&#039; to resolve the ambiguity.

4. YORKIST Can&#039;t parse this at all. And he&#039;s at it again. I&#039;m afraid I have, with regret, to pronounce this invalid.

5. &quot;Syrian&quot; He&#039;s at it again. Completely unnecessary.

6. &quot;Snail male? I would say not: it&#039;s hermaphrodite&quot; The clueing doesn&#039;t really work but it&#039;s a very nice joke. I&#039;ll let him off with a caution.

7. &quot;brooms&quot; Again unnecessary, but he forced me to Chambers where I learned something interesting.

Overall verdict? Not too difficult, not too easy, lots of fun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RCW@23</p>
<p>My first thought here was&#8230;but no, I&#8217;d better leave that till later.</p>
<p>So on second thoughts &#8211; I agree with you entirely when you say you would expect any cryptic crossword to contain many &#8216;indirect courses or means&#8217;. In fact I would say a cryptic crossword must contain many &#8216;indirections&#8217;. &#8216;Cryptic&#8217; practically means &#8216;indirect&#8217;.</p>
<p>I was struggling with how to say what I meant when Sils intervened. The best I can come up with, in retrospect, is &#8216;indirect indirectnesses&#8217;. Not pretty, I think, but precise.</p>
<p>Perhaps I should stop pretending to have no opinions. First I must say nothing in this puzzle gave me any great difficulty in solving it. But I don&#8217;t consider a puzzle completed until I&#8217;ve parsed everything. (It&#8217;s part of the pleasure.)</p>
<p>1.I have no problem with this type of themed puzzle. In fact I like it.</p>
<p>2.Indirect anagrams. The article in Wiki contains much of interest but in full it has much that is distracting. The relevant part here can be stated as &#8220;Indirect anagrams are not used in the majority of cryptic crosswords.&#8221; Well I can understand why. Another source gives an example: Measure of broken tree(4). (ACRE or MILE). I don&#8217;t mind that there are two possible solutions, it&#8217;s &#8216;tree&#8217; I dislike. Nearly as bad as &#8216;plant&#8217;, whose appearance in a clue always gives me a sinking feeling. The source classes this invalid. I don&#8217;t presume to go so far, but I don&#8217;t like it.</p>
<p>In  this puzzle I had got LANCASTER (fine) and YORKIST (with misgivings) so I come to &#8220;4. Emblem of Lancaster moved altar back(7)&#8221; Well &#8216;altar back&#8217; is clearly REREDOS, a word I only know from  crosswords. Hello! What we&#8217;ve got here is an indirect anagram! First I&#8217;ve ever seen! There&#8217;ll be trouble over this. So next we have &#8220;3. Yorkist element rendered differently(9)&#8221; Well differently looks like an anagrind but No! It&#8217;s the definition! And here&#8217;s another hidden anagram! Two of them side by side and symetrically related to the theme. Brilliant! The man&#8217;s a genius.</p>
<p>3. Indirect hidden answer. Hmm! Never seen that before either. Don&#8217;t think I like it. The man&#8217;s doing it on purpose! At least he has the decency to include &#8216;the&#8217; to resolve the ambiguity.</p>
<p>4. YORKIST Can&#8217;t parse this at all. And he&#8217;s at it again. I&#8217;m afraid I have, with regret, to pronounce this invalid.</p>
<p>5. &#8220;Syrian&#8221; He&#8217;s at it again. Completely unnecessary.</p>
<p>6. &#8220;Snail male? I would say not: it&#8217;s hermaphrodite&#8221; The clueing doesn&#8217;t really work but it&#8217;s a very nice joke. I&#8217;ll let him off with a caution.</p>
<p>7. &#8220;brooms&#8221; Again unnecessary, but he forced me to Chambers where I learned something interesting.</p>
<p>Overall verdict? Not too difficult, not too easy, lots of fun.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RCWhiting</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196633</link>
		<dc:creator>RCWhiting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[rho@18
&quot;try to show that the puzzle is full of indirections.&quot;

My first thought here is why you have used &#039;indirection&#039; rather than &#039;misdirection&#039; Do you know something which I do not?
Since it is not a word I know I checked it in Chambers which gives it but only from WS as &quot;indirect course or means, dishonest practice&quot;. Assuming you are not accusing A. of the latter then I would certainly expect any cryptic crossword to contain many &#039;indirect courses or means&#039;.
The more the better!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rho@18<br />
&#8220;try to show that the puzzle is full of indirections.&#8221;</p>
<p>My first thought here is why you have used &#8216;indirection&#8217; rather than &#8216;misdirection&#8217; Do you know something which I do not?<br />
Since it is not a word I know I checked it in Chambers which gives it but only from WS as &#8220;indirect course or means, dishonest practice&#8221;. Assuming you are not accusing A. of the latter then I would certainly expect any cryptic crossword to contain many &#8216;indirect courses or means&#8217;.<br />
The more the better!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196628</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apologies Bruce: 21 relates to 18 &amp; 19, of course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies Bruce: 21 relates to 18 &amp; 19, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/06/23/guardian-25664-araucaria/#comment-196627</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=45473#comment-196627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You could have fooled me. But that&#039;s still impressive stuff for ten past three in the morning.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could have fooled me. But that&#8217;s still impressive stuff for ten past three in the morning.</p>
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