Comments on: Guardian 25,674 / Crucible

By: Dave Ellison

Dave Ellison — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:39:26 +0000

Thanks, Eileen. Dull is certainly no town, more of a hamlet of half a dozen houses. Beautiful round there, excellent orienteering country.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:51:15 +0000

Sorry, we seem to have lost radio contact. I was thinking of GBS.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:48:25 +0000

That was just being corrected to Ms when it leapt skywards.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:47:03 +0000

Thanks all
Just to confuse further, do you favour MS or Mz and are they abbreviations.

Too late to comment but thanks Eileen.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:21:23 +0000

Well Ian, it *really* is.

What’s your opinion on sha’n't vs shan’t?

By: Ian SW3

Ian SW3 — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:28:15 +0000

I did not know until today that “Miss” is apparetntly derived from “Mistress,” but in any event it has never to my knowledge been written “Miss.” in the same way as “Mr.” The latter is seen in very old texts as “M’r” — which is more logical, but not what become the accepted form. To omit any typographical indicator or an abbreviation or contraction, though, seems both lazy and potentially confusing. I don’t know what to make of Miss, though, if it really is an abbreviation of Mistress.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:15:59 +0000

Logic has nothing to do with style. But apparently, where the first and last letters of a word are part of the abbreviated form, no stop is (necessarily) required. So, Mr, Mrs, Miss (Mrs and Miss are both shortened forms of the same word, Mistress).

By: Miche

Miche — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:54:28 +0000

Ian SW3 @28 – It used to be that one of the seasonal markers, like the first strawberries or the first asparagus, was the appearance in the Times letters page of a claim to have heard the first cuckoo. For all I know, the tradition continues.

By: Giovanna

Giovanna — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:31:28 +0000

Thanks, Crucible for a very enjoyable puzzle and a huge thanks to Eileen for saving the day on the blog front.

When in Italy, 5d would be scare tsi but skirtsie is more common in England, I feel. Collins Italian Dictionary gives skertso for the singular.

The crossing letters gave the composer without being aware of his composition – so everything was gettable and hugely enjoyable in the process.

Giovanna x

By: Ian SW3

Ian SW3 — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:28:52 +0000

Many thanks, Eileen, and Crucible.

I didn’t know what cuckoos had to do with Times correspondents, but am informed by my friend Google that there is a collection of letters to the Times published called “The First Cuckoo,” so presumably it is (to others) either a familiar term or a well-known book.

nmsindy @25 — presumably the widespread omission of stops in e.g., i.e., et al. is to compensate for the extra ink required to insert apostrophes in all plural words. I am also perturbed by Mr and Mrs (though, logically, the former should always have been written M’r, and as the latter cannot be written out in full it defies all logical rules of abbreviation).

Incidentally, when the names of new members of my chambers were painted up recently, the sign painter wrote, in addition to “Mr. X” and “Mrs. Y” (etc.), “Miss. Z” I thought this terribly amusing and pointed out to Miss Z that the painter must have thought “Miss” was an abbreviation for something (Mississippi is all that springs to mind). Alas, Miss Z, being under 30, replied, “Oh, isn’t it?”

Sigh.