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	<title>Comments on: Financial Times 14,057 &#8211; Dante</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/07/26/financial-times-14057-dante/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/07/26/financial-times-14057-dante/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: JollySwagman</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/07/26/financial-times-14057-dante/#comment-199688</link>
		<dc:creator>JollySwagman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2012 06:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=46980#comment-199688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Sil #5 - I think we&#039;ve changed wormcans there. LILY is already in order - OTOH it&#039;s indirect and not entirely obvious, which I&#039;m not a stickler against, but there are limits. Eg see Anax here: 

http://www.ukpuzzle.com/crypticxwordguide.htm 

re the example:

There&#039;s no real presence in parental desire (4)

Actually the original issue is discussed further up the same page, starting with &quot;Setters and editors are split over what is and is not acceptable when it comes to a slightly different procedure - the subtraction anagram.&quot; 

Well chosen words I think. What I was on about the other day was not wanting to debate what the &quot;rules&quot; should or shouldn&#039;t be but just welcoming the appearance of this device at all - it gets talked about quite a bit but doesn&#039;t appear all that often - although I&#039;ve seen Dante/Rufus use it exactly as here at least once before. 

OTOH I don&#039;t agree (same page) that &quot;[editorial] preferences should be consistent within your chosen publication - if they are not, you have every right to complain!&quot;. One of the great strengths of the Guardian, in particular, is that it has traditionally been a broad church and many different cluing styles are on offer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sil #5 &#8211; I think we&#8217;ve changed wormcans there. LILY is already in order &#8211; OTOH it&#8217;s indirect and not entirely obvious, which I&#8217;m not a stickler against, but there are limits. Eg see Anax here: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ukpuzzle.com/crypticxwordguide.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ukpuzzle.com/crypticxwordguide.htm</a> </p>
<p>re the example:</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no real presence in parental desire (4)</p>
<p>Actually the original issue is discussed further up the same page, starting with &#8220;Setters and editors are split over what is and is not acceptable when it comes to a slightly different procedure &#8211; the subtraction anagram.&#8221; </p>
<p>Well chosen words I think. What I was on about the other day was not wanting to debate what the &#8220;rules&#8221; should or shouldn&#8217;t be but just welcoming the appearance of this device at all &#8211; it gets talked about quite a bit but doesn&#8217;t appear all that often &#8211; although I&#8217;ve seen Dante/Rufus use it exactly as here at least once before. </p>
<p>OTOH I don&#8217;t agree (same page) that &#8220;[editorial] preferences should be consistent within your chosen publication &#8211; if they are not, you have every right to complain!&#8221;. One of the great strengths of the Guardian, in particular, is that it has traditionally been a broad church and many different cluing styles are on offer.</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/07/26/financial-times-14057-dante/#comment-199607</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=46980#comment-199607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JS, thanks for coming back to my Subtraction Anagram Tournament :).

When I said &quot;dash should be deleted in the given order d,a,s,h&quot;, I meant that the letters d,a,s,h should be part of the original fodder in that order.
Your interpretation of my words is a way to look at these, but not what I meant to say.
And if you&#039;re happy with it, fine.
Many setters are too - some are not, though.

Perhaps one should take a look at 10ac in today&#039;s Monk (FT):
&quot;French school voluntarily pruning plant ruined by Vichy water (3,7)&quot;
That&#039;s how it should be done, in my opinion. Monk&#039;s spot on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JS, thanks for coming back to my Subtraction Anagram Tournament <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>When I said &#8220;dash should be deleted in the given order d,a,s,h&#8221;, I meant that the letters d,a,s,h should be part of the original fodder in that order.<br />
Your interpretation of my words is a way to look at these, but not what I meant to say.<br />
And if you&#8217;re happy with it, fine.<br />
Many setters are too &#8211; some are not, though.</p>
<p>Perhaps one should take a look at 10ac in today&#8217;s Monk (FT):<br />
&#8220;French school voluntarily pruning plant ruined by Vichy water (3,7)&#8221;<br />
That&#8217;s how it should be done, in my opinion. Monk&#8217;s spot on.</p>
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		<title>By: JollySwagman</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/07/26/financial-times-14057-dante/#comment-199597</link>
		<dc:creator>JollySwagman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=46980#comment-199597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Sil re 29a - This is well enough trodden ground. I&#039;m sure you know what Dante&#039;s expectation was.

&quot;‘dash’ should be deleted in the given order d,a,s,h&quot;

DISENCHANTED
remove D
ISENCHANTED
remove A
ISENCHNTED
remove S
etc

Since this method always works I personally find a second anagrind to be redundant but I can live with it, especially if it helps the surface. 

I don&#039;t like too many DDs so I don&#039;t often do Dante/Rufus, but this best of his wordplay clues would make a fine puzzle.

But I rather like this clue. There could be a reading where &quot;upset&quot; jumbles &quot;dash&quot; and &quot;lewd&quot; is the main anagrind, doubling as the def - but maybe then you&#039;d have him up on another charge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sil re 29a &#8211; This is well enough trodden ground. I&#8217;m sure you know what Dante&#8217;s expectation was.</p>
<p>&#8220;‘dash’ should be deleted in the given order d,a,s,h&#8221;</p>
<p>DISENCHANTED<br />
remove D<br />
ISENCHANTED<br />
remove A<br />
ISENCHNTED<br />
remove S<br />
etc</p>
<p>Since this method always works I personally find a second anagrind to be redundant but I can live with it, especially if it helps the surface. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like too many DDs so I don&#8217;t often do Dante/Rufus, but this best of his wordplay clues would make a fine puzzle.</p>
<p>But I rather like this clue. There could be a reading where &#8220;upset&#8221; jumbles &#8220;dash&#8221; and &#8220;lewd&#8221; is the main anagrind, doubling as the def &#8211; but maybe then you&#8217;d have him up on another charge.</p>
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		<title>By: Bamberger</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/07/26/financial-times-14057-dante/#comment-199138</link>
		<dc:creator>Bamberger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=46980#comment-199138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I got stuck in the SW and failed on 18d,20d,24d and 26a. I had &quot;its a&quot; for 15d but couldn&#039;t get cinch.
Thanks for the blog]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got stuck in the SW and failed on 18d,20d,24d and 26a. I had &#8220;its a&#8221; for 15d but couldn&#8217;t get cinch.<br />
Thanks for the blog</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/07/26/financial-times-14057-dante/#comment-199130</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 17:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=46980#comment-199130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Doesn&#039;t look like you&#039;ve too many takers for today&#039;s Subtraction Anagram Tournament, SvdH. I&#039;ve been holding off all day, hoping, hoping, and polishing my lance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t look like you&#8217;ve too many takers for today&#8217;s Subtraction Anagram Tournament, SvdH. I&#8217;ve been holding off all day, hoping, hoping, and polishing my lance.</p>
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		<title>By: rowland</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/07/26/financial-times-14057-dante/#comment-199095</link>
		<dc:creator>rowland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=46980#comment-199095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Morning Sil. Re clue 29, I&#039;ll have a stab at either IENCNTED or DIENCNTE being the answer! You can see what&#039;s meant of course, but sticking with the logic sends you in a strange direction. 

Have to say I did not try this puzzle, but it seems a good one, and I enjoyed your blog very much.

Best, Rowly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morning Sil. Re clue 29, I&#8217;ll have a stab at either IENCNTED or DIENCNTE being the answer! You can see what&#8217;s meant of course, but sticking with the logic sends you in a strange direction. </p>
<p>Have to say I did not try this puzzle, but it seems a good one, and I enjoyed your blog very much.</p>
<p>Best, Rowly.</p>
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