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	<title>Comments on: Guardian 25,752 &#8211; Boatman</title>
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	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
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		<title>By: Luce Gilmore</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-210474</link>
		<dc:creator>Luce Gilmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-210474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I finally solved this on 21 October. My habit is to photocopy a crossword and worry it, intermittently, till it yields. The lower-right quadrant was the hardest. 7, TALINE* I feel is terribly weak.
Huw Powell, you are a wet blanket &amp; defeatist! I too hate proper names as clues, but I stuck with it. After all, someone has gone to the effort of compiling the puzzle. I would never use a software utility: what point is there in cheating yourself? For that reason I always use a black ballpoint.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finally solved this on 21 October. My habit is to photocopy a crossword and worry it, intermittently, till it yields. The lower-right quadrant was the hardest. 7, TALINE* I feel is terribly weak.<br />
Huw Powell, you are a wet blanket &amp; defeatist! I too hate proper names as clues, but I stuck with it. After all, someone has gone to the effort of compiling the puzzle. I would never use a software utility: what point is there in cheating yourself? For that reason I always use a black ballpoint.</p>
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		<title>By: KeithS</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-207471</link>
		<dc:creator>KeithS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 05:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-207471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rather too late to comment, really. I struggled through this at intervals over the weekend with my copy of the Weekly, and ended up pleased to have got it out, especially as I nearly quit early after too many odd spellings of names I thought I knew. (I got Finbarr with an almost blank grid from the Spoonerism, but with a different spelling, which didn&#039;t help much.) But I&#039;m glad I persisted, even though I found this harder than I&#039;m normally comfortable with, and in the end there weren&#039;t any clues I was annoyed by and a number I appreciated. I didn&#039;t think of Boatman&#039;s &#039;dried up&#039; parsing of 17d - I imagined someone saying &#039;Er..&#039; and then drying, so I parsed this as a reversal (about) of &#039;Er..dried&#039; and felt happy enough to leave it in, but not completely happy. Thanks Boatman and Manehi (who&#039;s probably the only one left still reading this!).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rather too late to comment, really. I struggled through this at intervals over the weekend with my copy of the Weekly, and ended up pleased to have got it out, especially as I nearly quit early after too many odd spellings of names I thought I knew. (I got Finbarr with an almost blank grid from the Spoonerism, but with a different spelling, which didn&#8217;t help much.) But I&#8217;m glad I persisted, even though I found this harder than I&#8217;m normally comfortable with, and in the end there weren&#8217;t any clues I was annoyed by and a number I appreciated. I didn&#8217;t think of Boatman&#8217;s &#8216;dried up&#8217; parsing of 17d &#8211; I imagined someone saying &#8216;Er..&#8217; and then drying, so I parsed this as a reversal (about) of &#8216;Er..dried&#8217; and felt happy enough to leave it in, but not completely happy. Thanks Boatman and Manehi (who&#8217;s probably the only one left still reading this!).</p>
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		<title>By: Huw Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-206670</link>
		<dc:creator>Huw Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 03:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-206670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Worst Grauniad puzzle I seen in a long time.  Got a few clues, then got utterly bored of the &quot;boy/girl&quot; theme and just started using OneLook using the checked letters.  An utter bore. Every clue I solved in the upper and left sides just left me cold.  Left the SE empty because I stopped caring due to an awful grid.  To solve the SE all I had was 16d starting with A and 21d starting with E.

Thanks for stopping by, Boatman, but I can&#039;t thank you for this mess.  Random names as definitions are the worst form of clues in this land.

Thanks for the blog, Manehi.  I can&#039;t even care to figure out those SE answers I missed, this puzzle was so unamusing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worst Grauniad puzzle I seen in a long time.  Got a few clues, then got utterly bored of the &#8220;boy/girl&#8221; theme and just started using OneLook using the checked letters.  An utter bore. Every clue I solved in the upper and left sides just left me cold.  Left the SE empty because I stopped caring due to an awful grid.  To solve the SE all I had was 16d starting with A and 21d starting with E.</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by, Boatman, but I can&#8217;t thank you for this mess.  Random names as definitions are the worst form of clues in this land.</p>
<p>Thanks for the blog, Manehi.  I can&#8217;t even care to figure out those SE answers I missed, this puzzle was so unamusing.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul (not Paul)</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-206473</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul (not Paul)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-206473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Too many variant spellings for my taste.

Finbarr, Rhumba, Erroll and Casandra in one puzzle goes against Boatman&#039;s stated &quot;once in a while&quot;.

But mostly it was just too hard for me and that always makes me a little less tolerant of other weaknesses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too many variant spellings for my taste.</p>
<p>Finbarr, Rhumba, Erroll and Casandra in one puzzle goes against Boatman&#8217;s stated &#8220;once in a while&#8221;.</p>
<p>But mostly it was just too hard for me and that always makes me a little less tolerant of other weaknesses.</p>
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		<title>By: rhotician</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-206439</link>
		<dc:creator>rhotician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 23:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-206439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;dried&#039;, unlike &#039;dried up&#039;, does not mean &quot;ran out of things to say&quot;. It means &quot;forgot one&#039;s lines&quot;. I think up is the intended reversal indicator. Like &#039;urchin&#039; yesterday and such things as the indirect anagram this kind of two-step is contentious. 

As tupu has already said Google confirms that Casandra is not a misspelling but an alternative spelling, just as Finbarr is an alternative to the more usual Finbar. Wiki even suggests, rather unconvincingly, that Casandra and Cassandra have different meanings.

I once worked for a short time with a group of Americans, one of whom was called Laymond Pon. When we Brits asked him about his name he explained that his parents migrated from China to California before he was born. They encountered the name Raymond and liked it, especially in the only way they were able to pronounce it. Laymond grew up quite happy with the originality of his name, even though he was able to pronounce Raymond correctly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;dried&#8217;, unlike &#8216;dried up&#8217;, does not mean &#8220;ran out of things to say&#8221;. It means &#8220;forgot one&#8217;s lines&#8221;. I think up is the intended reversal indicator. Like &#8216;urchin&#8217; yesterday and such things as the indirect anagram this kind of two-step is contentious. </p>
<p>As tupu has already said Google confirms that Casandra is not a misspelling but an alternative spelling, just as Finbarr is an alternative to the more usual Finbar. Wiki even suggests, rather unconvincingly, that Casandra and Cassandra have different meanings.</p>
<p>I once worked for a short time with a group of Americans, one of whom was called Laymond Pon. When we Brits asked him about his name he explained that his parents migrated from China to California before he was born. They encountered the name Raymond and liked it, especially in the only way they were able to pronounce it. Laymond grew up quite happy with the originality of his name, even though he was able to pronounce Raymond correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: manehi</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-206434</link>
		<dc:creator>manehi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 22:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-206434</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks yvains &amp; Ilippu re: Gabriela, and thanks Boatman for the puzzle!

Coming back to it after a while, I think a lot of my reservations while solving were down to a fear after the first few solutions that every &quot;girl&quot;/&quot;boy&quot; would be a definition. As it is, I liked the different uses not only of girl/boy but also &quot;place to drink&quot;, &quot;legend&quot; &amp; &quot;overweight&quot;. 4dn, however, still looks wrong.

As for 17d - I saw the parsing for this fairly quickly, and quite like it. It was leg-end that stumped me for a good ten minutes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks yvains &amp; Ilippu re: Gabriela, and thanks Boatman for the puzzle!</p>
<p>Coming back to it after a while, I think a lot of my reservations while solving were down to a fear after the first few solutions that every &#8220;girl&#8221;/&#8221;boy&#8221; would be a definition. As it is, I liked the different uses not only of girl/boy but also &#8220;place to drink&#8221;, &#8220;legend&#8221; &amp; &#8220;overweight&#8221;. 4dn, however, still looks wrong.</p>
<p>As for 17d &#8211; I saw the parsing for this fairly quickly, and quite like it. It was leg-end that stumped me for a good ten minutes.</p>
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		<title>By: Boatman</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-206432</link>
		<dc:creator>Boatman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 22:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-206432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eileen -  you shouldn&#039;t give me dangerous ideas! ... The trouble with complete nonsense is that the clues would have to be completely transparent, so it would be self-defeating. Once in a while, an obscure word or variant spelling is ok, but it shouldn&#039;t be the norm.

Everyone who is still struggling with the parsing of 17D - it&#039;s very simple: &quot;ran out of things to say&quot; = synonym for &quot;dried up&quot; = DRIED rev = DEIRD etc, exactly as blogged by manehi. You can see it as a cheeky semi-indirect reversal indicator, if you like - a bit like an indirect anagram, but more acceptable because &quot;dried up&quot; is such a common phrase and so appealing as an indicator. Well, it appealed to me, anyway.

Thanks to all ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eileen &#8211;  you shouldn&#8217;t give me dangerous ideas! &#8230; The trouble with complete nonsense is that the clues would have to be completely transparent, so it would be self-defeating. Once in a while, an obscure word or variant spelling is ok, but it shouldn&#8217;t be the norm.</p>
<p>Everyone who is still struggling with the parsing of 17D &#8211; it&#8217;s very simple: &#8220;ran out of things to say&#8221; = synonym for &#8220;dried up&#8221; = DRIED rev = DEIRD etc, exactly as blogged by manehi. You can see it as a cheeky semi-indirect reversal indicator, if you like &#8211; a bit like an indirect anagram, but more acceptable because &#8220;dried up&#8221; is such a common phrase and so appealing as an indicator. Well, it appealed to me, anyway.</p>
<p>Thanks to all &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-206431</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 22:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-206431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[... = a reversal of DRIED = DEIRD , of course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; = a reversal of DRIED = DEIRD , of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Sil van den Hoek</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-206430</link>
		<dc:creator>Sil van den Hoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-206430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, er, boys and girls, it looks like today some solvers liked Boatman&#039;s journey while others felt a bit seasick.
In our opinion, his ship had some trouble to rule the waves when it fell victim to heavy weather after some initial plain sailing (7ac (yes, Eileen, well spotted, a nod to Paul), 10ac, 22ac,, 23ac, 25ac, 1d, 3d, 20d - quite a lot when I look at it now).

Mixed feelings, though.

Of course, all the ingredients typical to a Boatman crossword are there. That said, all? 
I think this is the first Guardian puzzle in which Boatman didn&#039;t mention his own &#039;name&#039; in one of the clues.

As Rorschach said, ALASTAIR (11ac) was a belter - agree.
And yes, INGE(12ac) was very very clever. Another highlight.

Although I am perhaps more Libertarian than Ximenean, I am still not a big fan of the devices used in 9d (leg/end), 15d (de/faulted) and 16d (over/weight). I know Boatman likes them (and uses them ever so often), so I was alert. That said, three in one puzzle, ah well.

At first, 19ac&#039;s &quot;occasions&quot; did raise my eyebrows but on second thoughts I think it&#039;s more than OK. The verb &quot;to occasion&quot; can mean &quot;to cause&quot; or &quot;to produce&quot; (something). Quite a good anagram, btw.

On the other hand, there were a few things that were food for thought here in Cambridge.
The wording of 8ac (&quot;Girl with boy on board ship&quot;) made our brain cells work because of the use of &quot;on board&quot;, but it&#039;s fine - more than, in fact.
But the &quot;out of&quot; in 20d still feels rather uncomfortable.
And what&#039;s the purpose of the ellipsis 17/18d? Is it the unfinished sentence in 17d that needed a follow-up?
While I know that it&#039;s defendable, I/we still don&#039;t like clues like 2d in which the order of things goes against one&#039;s (ie my/our) intuition. &quot;Girl going round cheese festival&quot; - it&#039;s not the girl that goes round &#039;brie&#039;, but the festival.

While some rave about 17d, I am not sure whether the device used here (well, yvains, is it really a (let alone, much used) device?) is one step too far or not. I personally think, if we accept &quot;ran out of things to say&quot;= &quot;dried up&quot; = a reversal of DEIRD, we should accept indirect anagrams from now on too.

So, what&#039;s our verdict today?
Well, while solving we were a bit annoyed by all these unusual spellings and by the fact (not Boatman&#039;s fault) that we got stuck in the SE. I&#039;m afraid that, in the end, we found it a bit of a slog.
But but (yes, twice, not a typo), I/we appreciated - as ever - the effort that Boatman made to produce a crossword that carried undeniably his signature. 

Many thanks, manehi!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, er, boys and girls, it looks like today some solvers liked Boatman&#8217;s journey while others felt a bit seasick.<br />
In our opinion, his ship had some trouble to rule the waves when it fell victim to heavy weather after some initial plain sailing (7ac (yes, Eileen, well spotted, a nod to Paul), 10ac, 22ac,, 23ac, 25ac, 1d, 3d, 20d &#8211; quite a lot when I look at it now).</p>
<p>Mixed feelings, though.</p>
<p>Of course, all the ingredients typical to a Boatman crossword are there. That said, all?<br />
I think this is the first Guardian puzzle in which Boatman didn&#8217;t mention his own &#8216;name&#8217; in one of the clues.</p>
<p>As Rorschach said, ALASTAIR (11ac) was a belter &#8211; agree.<br />
And yes, INGE(12ac) was very very clever. Another highlight.</p>
<p>Although I am perhaps more Libertarian than Ximenean, I am still not a big fan of the devices used in 9d (leg/end), 15d (de/faulted) and 16d (over/weight). I know Boatman likes them (and uses them ever so often), so I was alert. That said, three in one puzzle, ah well.</p>
<p>At first, 19ac&#8217;s &#8220;occasions&#8221; did raise my eyebrows but on second thoughts I think it&#8217;s more than OK. The verb &#8220;to occasion&#8221; can mean &#8220;to cause&#8221; or &#8220;to produce&#8221; (something). Quite a good anagram, btw.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there were a few things that were food for thought here in Cambridge.<br />
The wording of 8ac (&#8220;Girl with boy on board ship&#8221;) made our brain cells work because of the use of &#8220;on board&#8221;, but it&#8217;s fine &#8211; more than, in fact.<br />
But the &#8220;out of&#8221; in 20d still feels rather uncomfortable.<br />
And what&#8217;s the purpose of the ellipsis 17/18d? Is it the unfinished sentence in 17d that needed a follow-up?<br />
While I know that it&#8217;s defendable, I/we still don&#8217;t like clues like 2d in which the order of things goes against one&#8217;s (ie my/our) intuition. &#8220;Girl going round cheese festival&#8221; &#8211; it&#8217;s not the girl that goes round &#8216;brie&#8217;, but the festival.</p>
<p>While some rave about 17d, I am not sure whether the device used here (well, yvains, is it really a (let alone, much used) device?) is one step too far or not. I personally think, if we accept &#8220;ran out of things to say&#8221;= &#8220;dried up&#8221; = a reversal of DEIRD, we should accept indirect anagrams from now on too.</p>
<p>So, what&#8217;s our verdict today?<br />
Well, while solving we were a bit annoyed by all these unusual spellings and by the fact (not Boatman&#8217;s fault) that we got stuck in the SE. I&#8217;m afraid that, in the end, we found it a bit of a slog.<br />
But but (yes, twice, not a typo), I/we appreciated &#8211; as ever &#8211; the effort that Boatman made to produce a crossword that carried undeniably his signature. </p>
<p>Many thanks, manehi!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2012/09/27/guardian-25752-boatman/#comment-206422</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fifteensquared.net/?p=49425#comment-206422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[17D just omits a &#039;perhaps&#039; or a &#039;maybe&#039; for the DRIED &lt;, more&#039;s the pity. Nice theories above gents, but in my view it&#039;s the wrong tree up which you are barking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>17D just omits a &#8216;perhaps&#8217; or a &#8216;maybe&#8217; for the DRIED &lt;, more&#039;s the pity. Nice theories above gents, but in my view it&#039;s the wrong tree up which you are barking.</p>
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