Comments on: Guardian 25,762 – Puck

By: don

don — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 10:24:03 +0000

“Is there any hope for me?”

No!

Seek help from ROWAN Williams.

By: Uncle Yap

Uncle Yap — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 23:50:36 +0000

What a nice end to a lovely puzzle and hopefully, a fair blog. The strongest language today was someone’s oblique critique of my musical taste. Let’s keep it civil and entertaining; after all, this is a pursuit for fun and amusement with a bot of mental challenge thrown in.

By the way, I am trapped in the musical time warp of the 60′s and 70′s; anything from the Beatles, Elvis, Cliff Richard, Rolling Stones, Tremelos, Hollies, CCR, Animals, Procol Harum, Petula Clark to Queens, Fleetwood Mac, Rod Stewart, Carole King, Don McLean to even Benny Hill and his Fastest Milkman in the West! Is there any hope for me?

By: Paul B

Paul B — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 21:52:18 +0000

Well, hmm, yes, well, quite.

But is this a hint? May we now look forward to something more definitive? ‘The Jolly Swagman Guide to Cryptic Crosswords’? ‘The Jolly Crossword Swag-manual’?

Let’s hope so!

By: JollySwagman

JollySwagman — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 21:02:18 +0000

@rho #42. You are presumably alluding to the slogan “a precise definition; a fair subsidiary indication; nothing else”. Much as some love to be guided by a simple set of “rules” I think this should be regarded as nothing more than a rough generalisation. Whilst most good clues conform to that many of the most celebrated clues ever written are differently constructed.

It’s remarkable how over the years many of the most capable setters have written complete tosh attempting to formalise theories on clue-writing or have others conform to their own individual viewpoint.

By: tupu

tupu — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 20:47:11 +0000

Hi Martin P

Not just the etymology. Collins gives “(2) a heading, title, or headline of a chapter, article etc”.

By: Martin P

Martin P — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 20:30:25 +0000

RCWhiting says:

“…5ac I thought that “Pontiac hit by twister” say might be more a definition of a headline…”

===

I thought so too, but then isn’t the etymology of “caption” pretty well that?

By: Paul B

Paul B — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:54:06 +0000

Not sure I see what you mean, optician.

Thanks for commenting on the ‘cryptic definition’.

By: tupu

tupu — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:07:11 +0000

Hi rhotician

Thanks for your clarification. The definition itself is by homophonic implication ‘roll’ (which may not be all that good, but is pretty plain and simple). A cryptic definition (cd in UY’s abbreviations) somewhat ‘reluctantly’ reveals the answer, whereas in this case the definition itself rather than the answer is ‘disguised’. Perhaps ‘hidden’ or ‘implicit’ definition describes this.

ps I hope you mean PaulB @37 rather than tupu @39.

By: rhotician

rhotician — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:42:56 +0000

RCW @29: I was going to comment on role,say/roll but domestic duties called.

It is not a cryptic definition. It is something I cannot recall having encountered before. I would describe it as a ‘two-step’, rather like the indirect anagram. The clue does not provide a definition, cryptic or otherwise. It provides a clue to a definition.

Paul B @39: Are you trying to get us closed down again?

By: Paul B

Paul B — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:32:02 +0000

If you say so, RCW.

I don’t really understand what you mean about definitions (presumably in clues that include subsidiary indication) ‘not usually being cryptic’, or what you mean when you describe today’s 5D as having a ‘cryptic definition’.

Can you enlighten me? (Normally Swagman does that, I know, but just for today, as they say in Alcoholics Anonymous.)