Comments on: Guardian Cryptic 25794 Arachne

By: Gordon

Gordon — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:46:36 +0000

Hi Scchua
I know its a bit late in the day, but I also know that you get all comments no matter how late. I just finished the crossword from the Guardian Weekly, hence the delay.
Your blogs always interest me and I want to add my thanks for many interesting snippets of information from you over the past year or so.
My reason for adding another comment was re: 25d. I saw the reasoning you have as one explanation, which I only noted after I’d put the answer in using another process. My reasoning was Twitter = T; short = Wee and [cloyingly] sweet = Twee.
I still like mine better and wonder which Arachne used? Probably yours, I guess, but who knows?
Best wishes

By: Huw Powell

Huw Powell — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 02:50:38 +0000

24a = “knackered” spoilt the SW corner for me. I hate DDs, sorry.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:23:07 +0000

One for the Swag-Manual though.

By: brucew_aus

brucew_aus — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:27:52 +0000

Thanks Arachne and scchua

Enjoyable crossword again which I didnt start till I had conquered the previous two days. Anyway missed Arachne’s usual sting in the tail with this one – only held up with finding GEL = posh girl (which was last in – after thinking that GEL may have been a posh girl’s way of referring to her implants). After a bit of searching was able to find both slang pounds to justify NICOSIA.

Agree that HOSPITAL was the clear cod – also enjoyed 17 and 23.

By: rowland

rowland — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:34:23 +0000

No, no. The crossing letters thing is a red herring. All clues MUST be gettable stand alone unless they cross-refer, for me.

Cheers
Rowly.

By: jim

jim — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:59:38 +0000

Sorry if I’m late with this.
By saying that all clues should be solvable as they stand, I was really saying that you have to start somewhere in a crossword. If a setter refers to another clue elsewhere in the grid, s/he is in effect saying ‘You can’t start here.’ I think that’s perfectly fair: you know that the clues are related somehow. That’s not the case with Moses/mores. Crossing letters are useful in finding a solution, but they shouldn’t be essential. Otherwise we’re in Quick Crossword territory.

By: Median

Median — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 01:38:17 +0000

As the one who made the point – @29 – about 10a working either way, I’ve found the discussion on ambiguous clues interesting. I must admit I found the MOSES/MORES ambiguity unsatisfactory because for many years I’ve worked on the same basis as engineerb @46: the solutions to cryptic clues should be unambiguous, so you know when you’ve ‘got it’. It’s for this reason that I sometimes find cryptic definitions (one of Rufus’ trademarks) irritating: I’ve been able to come up with more than one answer that could ‘fit the bill’, yet mine is ‘wrong’.

Having seen the comments so far, I’m inclined to stick with my original opinion of 10a: it should have been clearer which way round the clue was supposed to work.

By: rhotician

rhotician — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:49:52 +0000

jim @38 thinks that all clues should be solvable as they stand. You only have to go back to Tuesday’s Paul to find clues such as “17 down 4, so an 8 then?”.

As for rules that is not for us but the crossword editor. Clues that allow of two possible solutions are explicitly disallowed by the Listener Crossword Guidelines. The Guardian currently, and I think traditionally allows, them, within limits. I suspect that the Times does not allow them, but perhaps Paul B will enlighten me.

As to whether such clues are faulty or unfair that debate belongs in General Discussion. And even there we should bear in mind that de gustibus non est disputandum. (Precise translation in the back of Chambers. Free translation – one man’s meat etc. Or one person’s if you prefer.)

As for MOSES/MORES I liked it. It has a nice surface, I could write in MO ES and I knew that the missing letter could only be R or S. No sweat.

By: RCWhiting

RCWhiting — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:07:28 +0000

engineerb @46
I agree entirely with what you have told your daughter and wonderful to see youngsters getting involved.
However, ‘mores’ is totally unambiguous precisely because of ‘prodigal’.
Crossing letters don’t just ‘have a role’, they are an essential part of a crossword – hence ‘cross’.

By: MikeC

MikeC — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:04:05 +0000

Thanks to all who have responded to my question @30. engineerb expresses my “gut feeling” perfectly. Before going further, I should say that I very much enjoy Arachne’s puzzles. She’s one of the best, imho.

Having thought about some of the other responses to my post, I do see that it’s a more complicated question than I realised. For example, it’s perfectly acceptable (often fun) to have linked clues where it’s impossible to solve one without the other (I think yesterday’s Boatman included some examples). Araucaria’s alphabetical jigsaws also come to mind. Nevertheless, I don’t think I was completely off-beam – such “dependent” clues certainly add to the difficulty of a crossword. I wonder what view the editors take on this question.