Comments on: Independent 8199 / Klingsor

By: Pelham Barton

Pelham Barton — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:59:44 +0000

Just popping back after finishing today's puzzles. 17ac: "Implicated" is in the long list of anagram indicators in the section of Chambers 2011 called A Wordgame Companion, not that it needs justification. 20ac: When solving, I was of course aware that Klingsor has a real name, but I did not know what it was. I decided that it must be Neil from the clue. On reflection, and reading the later comments, I agree with the view that the clue does not depend on that fact.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 01:30:39 +0000

Yes, PB, agree (even if I said something else @9), but our beloved setter must surely have had a special feeling when writing this clue.
For me, this is one of those rare clues that make my heart beat faster. So natural, simple and wonderful! (in alphabetical order)

By: Paul B

Paul B — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 01:11:48 +0000

We see ‘I’ as a def for just about anything, in fact. An old tradition, too.

By: anax

anax — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:44:46 +0000

‘Need to know’ – sorry; hasty digits.

By: anax

anax — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:44:06 +0000

I’m perfectly happy with ‘I’ as the def – there’s no reason why we need to need it’s K’s real name. ‘I’ is simply pointing to the identity of a name/grid entry (in fact we often see ‘I’ used as part of the def for an answer). It’s just a belting clue full stop and, as Sil suggests, a COTY contender.

By: Wil Ransome

Wil Ransome — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:12:30 +0000

Some really good stuff here I thought. In places it defeated me and I put in NIOBIUM, OUTRIGGER and ENTRIES without understanding why and had to come to the blog to see how they worked. Thanks, Duncan. Yes, I agree, Thomas99, the hardest Klingsor ever, but all the clues make good sense now. Actually I did a lot of it reasonably quickly but in due course became utterly stuck.

Although the surface for 20ac does indeed need I, and the clue is sound as it is, I felt what a number of people have pointed out in the past: there is a small group of people who actually know, but the general solver will have no idea that Klingsor is called Neil; you could argue that this is a little claustrophobic and that the Indy setter shouldn’t just appeal to this small world.

By: Sil van den Hoek

Sil van den Hoek — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:03:17 +0000

Well, flash, finished it under 15 minutes?
Bloody Hell, as a solver I am really not one living on the same planet as you.
But I agree, not the toughest of Klingsors.
A good one it was, though.

I didn’t like 22d at all. For me, very very obscure. In many senses.

But, wow, “I’ll be right back” for NEIL – a real gem.
Of course, technically speaking, it’s only fair when you know Klingsor’s name is Neil.
But I think Klingsor must have gushed about this clue when he got the idea.
Well, I would have.
My Clue of the Year already.

By: flashling

flashling — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:47:08 +0000

Started badly thinking 6d might be (mal)aria with Klingsor’s habit of operatic stuff, but quickly then finished, under 15 mins so I don’t think it was one of Neil’s hardest tbh. Did wonder if Chile Pine was a nod to the Rev Graham.

Thanks Duncan & Klingsor

By: Bertandjoyce

Bertandjoyce — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:21:34 +0000

Enjoyable challenge for Thursday. Some devious clueing which meant we had the answer but it took a while to sort out why!

Thanks Duncan – we needed the blog to explain 26ac. Thanks also to Klingsor for making lunch and tea more enjoyable!

By: Pelham Barton

Pelham Barton — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:17:02 +0000

Thanks Klingsor for an enjoyable puzzle and Duncan for the blog. I needed help with the parsing of 26ac, 6dn, and 15dn (although I had got the OUTlet bit in the last of these).

24ac: I took this as a complete “& lit”: I think every word is relevant to the definition.

22dn: Possible quibble here. H is the symbol for the element hydrogen or for a single atom. The gas is molecular hydrogen, whose formula is properly H2 (except that the 2 should be a subscript). Personally I am happy with the clue as it stands – it is not much more of a stretch than the way Quixote argued a few days ago – but I thought I would raise the point in order to dismiss it.