Comments on: Guardian Cryptic N° 25,876 by Philistine

By: Paul B

Paul B — Sat, 23 Feb 2013 19:39:27 +0000

Oh no you didn’t.

By: Huw Powell

Huw Powell — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:56:40 +0000

Oh and I forgot to say that I found the “split two words as one” answers the best part of this puzzle.

By: Huw Powell

Huw Powell — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:10:58 +0000

And when I typed “for it’s brilliance” you all know I know how apostrophes work, right? Oopsie.

By: Huw Powell

Huw Powell — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:09:54 +0000

I checked 9 (lovely!), 18 for it’s brilliance (IX or XI in ELIR), and 3 for its simplicity once I got it.

Never got 17 because I forgot to spellcheck the embarrassing “Caesarian” (which Firefox seems to think is fine).

The excellent “split whole words” answers were, well, excellent, and helped tie the grid together.

Speaking of which, this is a great grid – it’s not four corners joined by just four words, it’s a rel crossword grid that holds together. And the two place clues also open it up even more.

I got 13 from 4 as many did. And delighted in parsing it.

I like Guardian puzzles, Rowly, with their ambitious use of inventing new ways to clue things. That’s why I like the Guardian puzzles. I used to download the Herald, but it was too easy. I’ve tried Azed, and it/he boggles my mind, mostly.

I used to solve American puzzles, but when I inked in two NYT Sunday puzzles in a row as fast as I could write I knew I needed a better challenge. Luckily that guy at The Nation had introduced me to the cryptic.

Thanks for the blog PeterO and the rest of you, and to Philistine for a true gem.

By: Rowland

Rowland — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:28:54 +0000

Nor does Thomas ((understand the grammatical issues) I can assure you!!

I think I knmow the site(s) you mean. Thanks for kindly remarks

Cheers
Rowly.

By: Sea Doc

Sea Doc — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:24:55 +0000

Good for you Rowland.

I don’t understand the grammatical issues at stake but I enjoy reading the banter. As for trollishness (neologisms multiply), it is so much worse on other sites where comment is, arguably, too free and that is one of the reasons that I enjoy this site.

53S 53W headed for South Georgia with an albatross escort.

By: Rowland

Rowland — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:23:16 +0000

Well you wouldn’t like to have a mistake when you’re trying to be so clever!! I don’t agree with your analysis by the way, nor am I a ‘troll’ or ‘trollish’, thanks all the same. Semi-literate too? If you say so, but I will continue to post despite it.

Cheers
Rowly.

By: Thomas99

Thomas99 — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:06:16 +0000

PS. Sorry for the typo – I meant “noun” adjunct, of course

By: Thomas99

Thomas99 — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:05:00 +0000

I agree that Rowland is semi-literate – or rather his slightly trollish online persona is – in some respects. His analysis of “curtain opening” is grammatically wrong. This particular error does seem to have crept into crossword comments via Ximenes and it is annoying. The correct analysis is that “curtain” is adjectival (aka “nound adjunct” or “attributive noun”) and “opening” is a gerund. People point this out from time to time when someone says what Rowland has said and the response is always the same – nobody tries to defend the criticism but it is made again a few weeks later as if nothing happened. It seems to me to be on a par with complaints, which you still sometimes see, that clues “aren’t English sentences” – which obviously they don’t have to be.

My assumption is that the restriction on gerunds was brought in by X not because he didn’t understand the grammar but because he wanted to make the clues easier in some respects, thus giving himself more liberty in others. The same applies to the number of crossers of course – the fewer there are, the harder the clue, so whether you like that rule or not comes down to how you feel about this extra bit of difficulty being thrown in. You can defend both these rules, but not on grammatical grounds. (Re the gerund issue, I also wondered whether a Latinist bias had affected X – the adjectival use of nouns without further changes is not possible in Latin as it is in German – “hausfrau” etc. – and English – “gerund issue” etc. – and so on.)

By: Paul B

Paul B — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 01:45:08 +0000

Re not that Brendan, Derek MacNutt sought to make clues more gettable after Torquemada’s nightmarish reign (though for some, this was a jolly good one). The clueing grammar issue is at one remove, in that Mathers, brilliant scholar, poet, translator, and alumnus of Loretto and Trinity, did not, AFAIA, suffer from such problems. Try one of his puzzles here:

http://home.freeuk.net/dharrison/ximenes/torq.htm

and see what you think.

The crossword may have evolved, and we have to thank arch-Libertarian Araucaria in large part for that, but not beyond good clueing. Simple grammatical goofs, such as those pointed out by (apparently semi-literate) Rowland today, are not for me excused by recent developments, or by anything at all. And yes, the grid is appalling.