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	<title>Comments on: Guardian Quiptic N°  693 by Hectence</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/</link>
	<description>Never knowingly undersolved.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 13:53:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Rodger</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221517</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Mar 2013 00:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Managed most of it by Thursday before I had to read the blog.  12, &quot;bargee,&quot; eluded me completely.  I solved several clues without full understanding, such as 24d, 26, 19,and 9.  Much laughter in the surface readings, esp 16.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Managed most of it by Thursday before I had to read the blog.  12, &#8220;bargee,&#8221; eluded me completely.  I solved several clues without full understanding, such as 24d, 26, 19,and 9.  Much laughter in the surface readings, esp 16.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterO</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221322</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robi @5

I think that the &#039;trip&#039; is justified to nail down the definition - as I think you are suggesting.

Michelle @5

It is remarkable how often there is more than one way to parse an answer. Sometimes one is so clearly preferable that one can put it down as the setter&#039;s intention (even if I tend to come up with the other), sometimes there is not much to choose between them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robi @5</p>
<p>I think that the &#8216;trip&#8217; is justified to nail down the definition &#8211; as I think you are suggesting.</p>
<p>Michelle @5</p>
<p>It is remarkable how often there is more than one way to parse an answer. Sometimes one is so clearly preferable that one can put it down as the setter&#8217;s intention (even if I tend to come up with the other), sometimes there is not much to choose between them.</p>
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		<title>By: Robi</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221317</link>
		<dc:creator>Robi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PeterO @5; thanks for that, not that it really matters but what then is &#039;trip&#039; doing in the clue? Chambers gives for errand: &#039;a commission to say or do something usually involving a short journey.&#039; Maybe that is why &#039;trip&#039; is there, although not really needed if you take your definition of &#039;business&#039; at face value.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeterO @5; thanks for that, not that it really matters but what then is &#8216;trip&#8217; doing in the clue? Chambers gives for errand: &#8216;a commission to say or do something usually involving a short journey.&#8217; Maybe that is why &#8216;trip&#8217; is there, although not really needed if you take your definition of &#8216;business&#8217; at face value.</p>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221315</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robi@4

thanks for your comment. I have noticed in the past that there were some &quot;strange&quot; (in my opinion) parsings referring to computer keyboard layouts that I would never have thought of. That&#039;s why I even dared to think that COM = command/order.

Anyway, as I have read here, the important thing is to solve the clue!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robi@4</p>
<p>thanks for your comment. I have noticed in the past that there were some &#8220;strange&#8221; (in my opinion) parsings referring to computer keyboard layouts that I would never have thought of. That&#8217;s why I even dared to think that COM = command/order.</p>
<p>Anyway, as I have read here, the important thing is to solve the clue!</p>
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		<title>By: PeterO</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221312</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robi &amp; K&#039;s D
I took &#039;business&#039; in 8D to mean that an ERRAND has a purpose, rather than just being out for a stroll; however, now that I look it up, one of Chambers&#039; definitions of business is:

A task or errand incumbent or undertaken

which seems fairly conclusive.

I had a vague feeling that &#039;butty&#039; had something to do with barges, but I am not sure if I had come across this meaning somewhere before or it was a good guess. Of course, I looked it up before committing myself to the blog, along with AC/DC (pop music is not one of my strong points), but those were the only references that I needed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robi &amp; K&#8217;s D<br />
I took &#8216;business&#8217; in 8D to mean that an ERRAND has a purpose, rather than just being out for a stroll; however, now that I look it up, one of Chambers&#8217; definitions of business is:</p>
<p>A task or errand incumbent or undertaken</p>
<p>which seems fairly conclusive.</p>
<p>I had a vague feeling that &#8216;butty&#8217; had something to do with barges, but I am not sure if I had come across this meaning somewhere before or it was a good guess. Of course, I looked it up before committing myself to the blog, along with AC/DC (pop music is not one of my strong points), but those were the only references that I needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Robi</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221311</link>
		<dc:creator>Robi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice puzzle but maybe a bit complicated for a Quiptic.

Thanks PeterO for a good blog. KD @3; I think the business trip is in the sense of a trip to a business (i.e. a shop) Yes, you and me running errands for our mums. I also thought BARGEE was fair enough, although I didn&#039;t know the butty=barge meaning. Michelle @2; good to see you trying a different parsing. You are right that &#039;com&#039; can be an abbreviation for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.all-acronyms.com/COM/Command/46594&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;command as here.&lt;/a&gt; In this strange crosswordland some abbreviations are more equal than others - if it doesn&#039;t appear in Collins or Chambers, it&#039;s often not used. :) 

I particularly liked BRAGGART, HOAX and RUEFUL.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice puzzle but maybe a bit complicated for a Quiptic.</p>
<p>Thanks PeterO for a good blog. KD @3; I think the business trip is in the sense of a trip to a business (i.e. a shop) Yes, you and me running errands for our mums. I also thought BARGEE was fair enough, although I didn&#8217;t know the butty=barge meaning. Michelle @2; good to see you trying a different parsing. You are right that &#8216;com&#8217; can be an abbreviation for <a href="http://www.all-acronyms.com/COM/Command/46594" rel="nofollow">command as here.</a> In this strange crosswordland some abbreviations are more equal than others &#8211; if it doesn&#8217;t appear in Collins or Chambers, it&#8217;s often not used. <img src='http://www.fifteensquared.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>I particularly liked BRAGGART, HOAX and RUEFUL.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn's Dad</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221284</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn's Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Definitely solved easier cryptics than this one.  I always enjoy having a go at the Quiptic, but without being condescending, I would normally expect to knock it off in a lot less time than this one took me.

There was some clever clueing - GRADUATE and HEAVY METAL, for example - but there was some elaborate wordplay elsewhere which might have proved tricky for some solvers (this one, for example).

I&#039;m afraid I gave up and cheated on BARGEE.  Not a great clue in my opinion.  And ERRAND for &#039;business trip&#039; is not great either, I don&#039;t think.  When I was little, I would often run an errand for our mam, but I can&#039;t ever remember there being a business element to it.

Thanks to Peter for the blog and to Hectence for the puzzle.  I&#039;m sure the latter will get over her attachment to Man City if she just gives it enough time ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely solved easier cryptics than this one.  I always enjoy having a go at the Quiptic, but without being condescending, I would normally expect to knock it off in a lot less time than this one took me.</p>
<p>There was some clever clueing &#8211; GRADUATE and HEAVY METAL, for example &#8211; but there was some elaborate wordplay elsewhere which might have proved tricky for some solvers (this one, for example).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid I gave up and cheated on BARGEE.  Not a great clue in my opinion.  And ERRAND for &#8216;business trip&#8217; is not great either, I don&#8217;t think.  When I was little, I would often run an errand for our mam, but I can&#8217;t ever remember there being a business element to it.</p>
<p>Thanks to Peter for the blog and to Hectence for the puzzle.  I&#8217;m sure the latter will get over her attachment to Man City if she just gives it enough time &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221283</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PeterO
I like your parsing of 26a

I had parsed it as definition = &#039;grumble about&#039;. COM (order = command = &#039;com&#039; abbreviation as found on computer keyboard) + PLAIN (without any fuss)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeterO<br />
I like your parsing of 26a</p>
<p>I had parsed it as definition = &#8216;grumble about&#8217;. COM (order = command = &#8216;com&#8217; abbreviation as found on computer keyboard) + PLAIN (without any fuss)</p>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/02/25/guardian-quiptic-n-693-by-hectence/#comment-221282</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fifteensquared.net/?p=56164#comment-221282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This was an elegant, enjoyable and clearly clued puzzle. I think it was a perfect Quiptic.

There were so many clues that I liked, especially HOAX, RUB OUT, BRAGGART, STEALTHILY, NIGHTCAP &amp; ERRAND.

I couldn&#039;t fully parse 12a BARGEE which I understood as &quot;one bumped/barged into&quot; but I could not parse the &quot;by man with butty&quot; bit. (Yes, I was led astray by thinking &#039;butty&#039; = &#039;sandwich&#039;).

Thanks for the blog, PeterO.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was an elegant, enjoyable and clearly clued puzzle. I think it was a perfect Quiptic.</p>
<p>There were so many clues that I liked, especially HOAX, RUB OUT, BRAGGART, STEALTHILY, NIGHTCAP &amp; ERRAND.</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t fully parse 12a BARGEE which I understood as &#8220;one bumped/barged into&#8221; but I could not parse the &#8220;by man with butty&#8221; bit. (Yes, I was led astray by thinking &#8216;butty&#8217; = &#8216;sandwich&#8217;).</p>
<p>Thanks for the blog, PeterO.</p>
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