Guardian Cryptic 27,410 by Screw

by

THe puzzle may be found at https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/cryptic/27410.

This was a roller-coaster. On seeing the setter assigned to me, I expected a slog of a blog, but clue after clue fell in fairly easily, until 18D brought me up short – either I am missing something, or the clue is inadequate. Apart from that sour note, however, I found it an enjoyable crossword.

Across
1 FLYING Fast food’s leader producing Whopper? (6)
A charade of F (‘Food’s leader’) plus LYING (‘producing whopper?’). I take it that the question mark indicates the deceptive capital letter.
5 CASTANET Fish fingers used to make this sound? (8)
CAST A NET (‘fish’). For the definition, it took me a moment to realize that ‘sound’ is a verb (but it does remind me of the sound of one hand clapping).
9 SKIM OVER Runner one proposes just to read quickly (4,4)
A charade of SKI (‘runner’) plus MOVER (‘one proposes’ a motion).
10 AT ONCE Immediately in agreement about parts (2,4)
An envelope (‘parts’) of C (circa, ‘about’) in AT ONE (‘in agreement’).
11 STAT Figure involved in terrorist attack (4)
A hidden answer in ‘terroriST ATtack’. An abbreviation for statistic.
12 ARCHETYPAL Chat with player when ground’s ideal (10)
An anagram (‘when ground’) of ‘chat’ plus ‘player’.
13 LETS GO Fires bricks, keeping this empty (4,2)
AN envelope (‘keeping’) of TS (‘ThiS empty’) in LEGO (‘bricks’).
14 SCOTSMAN Son gutted about beds mother makes for northerner (8)
An envelope (‘about’) of COTS (‘beds’) plus MA (‘mother’) in SN (‘SoN gutted’).
16 ILL-FATED It’ll fade out … that’s unfortunate (3-5)
An anagram (‘out’) of ‘it’ll fade’.
19 EUCLID Cryptic clue I finally solved (being brilliant at maths) (6)
A charade of EUCL, an anagram (‘cryptic’) of ‘clue’ plus ‘I’ plus D (‘finally solveD‘). In the definition, I take ‘being’ as a noun, a person.
21 EPIGLOTTIS I get spoilt after massage, revealing part of body (10)
An anagram (‘after massage’) of ‘I get spoilt’.
23 OINK This swine might do tattoo with nothing upfront (4)
A charade of O (‘nothing’) plus INK (‘tattoo’).
24 NESTLE Finest lettuce sandwiches curl up (6)
A hidden answer (‘sandwiches’) in ‘fiNEST LEttuce’.
25 SPACE BAR Key place for out-of-this-world drinks? (5,3)
Definition and literal interpretation.
26 G-STRINGS They’re touched on necks behind showers (1-7)
I take it that the first definition references guitar necks, say.
27 SPARKY Electrician put down edging of safety nets (6)
An envelope (‘nets’) of PARK (‘put down’) in SY (‘edging of SafetY‘).
Down
2 LIKE THE CLAPPERS Take to appreciative fans in a hurry (4,3,8)
Definition and literal interpretation.
3 INMATES After cooking, it means they’re serving (7)
An anagram (‘after cooking’) of ‘it means’.
4 GIVE A HOOT Care what impatient driver might do (4,1,4)
Definition and literal interpretation.
5 CARACAS They’re shaken, swapping tips on communism for city (7)
MARACAS (‘they’re shaken’) with the M exchanged for a C (‘swapping tips on CommunisM‘).
6 SHAVE Touch saint with own following (5)
A charade of S (‘saint’) plus HAVE (‘own’).
7 ANONYMS Paul and Screw, perhaps, annoy mad woman (7)
A charade of ANONY, an anagram (‘mad’) of ‘annoy’ plus MS (‘woman’).
8 EXCLAMATION MARK A link, with extra comma’s silly! (11,4)
An anagram (‘silly’) of ‘a link’ plus ‘extra comma’
15 OVERSTAYS Takes advantage of hospitality on ship protecting river (9)
An envelope (‘protecting’) of TAY (‘river’) in OVER (‘on’) plus SS (‘ship’).
17 FIGHTER Hide in Asia from Spooner’s soldier (7)
The Spoonerism is THAI FUR (‘hide in Asia’).
18 DETESTS Can’t stand having abandoned defensive measures (7)
I do not follow the wordplay. Is a TEST a ‘defensive measure’? Is the prefix DE- intended to be attached to a verb or a noun? The nearest I can get is treating TESTS as  noun, which at least agrees with ‘abandoned defensive measures’, with ‘having’ as a link, but it seems a stretch too far to me. Any ideas?
20 CHOLERA Orally, one catches disease (7)
A homophone of COLLARER (‘one catches’ i.e. one who catches). Would it be better as COLLAR A, “Orally, catch a disease”?
22 OCEAN The big blue cone put out to cordon area off (5)
An envelope (‘to cordon … off’) of A (‘area’) in OCEN, an anagram (‘put out’) of ‘cone’.
completed grid

79 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 27,410 by Screw”

  2. Thank you to Screw for an enjoyable puzzle.  Like you PeterO I was completely baffled by 18 and 20 dn, but what Trovatore has written @ 1 makes perfect sense, so thanks to him for sorting those out.  Thank you also PeterO for showing the way to a couple of other parsings which I could not fully understand.  I actually found this fairly straightforward, and it was over quite quickly.

    My favourites were CASTANET, OINK and SPACE BAR with some fine memories of Star Wars watering holes!!

  3. Trovatore @1

    18D: Perhaps, although I think ‘abandoned’  is a poor indicator for evisceration, and TEST for ‘measure’  a little doubtful; still, this explanation is better than my floundering.

    20D: As you may see, I had second thoughts, and changed the blog as you were writing your comment.

  4. I agree Trovatore’s explanation for DETESTS is better, but still not quite satisfying. I also prefer PeterO’s alternative clue for CHOLERA. Both work but the shorter version is snappier.

    I came here for the explanation of the second definition of G-STRINGS but didn’t find it. Staring at the clue again, I suddenly clicked that ‘behind’ is also a noun and ‘showers’ is those who show. A laugh-out-loud PDM ?

    I thought the use of ‘!’ as definition in 8d was brilliant.

  5. I failed to solve SPACE BAR and new phrase for me was ‘like the clappers’.

    I needed help to parse 9a, 10a, 26a, 18d.

    Although I managed to parse it, I was not too keen on the Spoonerism THAI FUR for fighter, and I parsed CHOLERA as collarer.

    My favourites were 7d and 8d.

     

    Thanks Peter and Screw.

  6. Bit of a breeze for a Friday. I also struggled with 18 down but all the above make sense. I thought 20 down was fine. I thought the upper case W in 1ac was misleading but the clue was easy enough anyway.

    It’s only now that I’ve read the blog that I twigged ‘behind showers’ as the second definition for 26ac. Doh!

    I liked SPACEBAR and EXCLAMATION MARK

  7. Thanks for DETESTS (though I’m still not reslly happy with the explanation) and for the C in AT ONCE – shamefully I got stuck on C=parts??? and missed the about.

    Screw had lots of fun with parts of speech today: being as a noun in EUCLID, sound as a verb in CASTANET, behind as a noun in G STRINGS, and so on.

  8. Thanks Screw and PeterO

    I agree that this was one of Screw’s easier ones. I liked 2d, CHOLERA (despite not generally liking “sounds like”) and G-STRING one I recognised what “showers” meant!

    Electricians are more generally SPARKS – this can almost be justified by using Safety netS, but then there is no inclusion indicator.

    I was a bit irritated with 5a. I recognised that it might be MARACAS or CARACAS. After considerable thought, I decided that the former was more likely from the clue, hence CASTANET was LOI.

  9. Easier than most Screw puzzles – I fairly romped through until the last few clues. G-STRINGS was my favourite; also liked LETS GO, ARCHETYPAL and EXCLAMATION MARK. Many thanks to Screw and PeterO.

  10. PeterO @3 echoes my thoughts exactly. I enjoyed this puzzle much more than Screw’s previous ones, with some ‘stand out’ clues, so it was a pity that 18d disappointed for the reasons PeterO has given. The answer was pretty obvious with the crossers in, and the clear definition, but, surely, a better clue could have been constructed, and the other clues show that Screw can produce some crackers.

  11. I’m afraid this left me feeling a little disgruntled, considering how easily it went in.

    I agree with muffin @8 re SPARKS. The Spoonerism at 17d doesn’t quite work for me and CHOLERA feels a bit clumsy. I don’t think DETESTS works either. I was trying, unsuccessfully, to do something with “deterrents” there.

    On the plus side, I thought CASTANET and G-STRINGS were very clever and amusing.

    Thanks Screw and PeterO.

  12. Like George @10, I too thought this Screw puzzle was much better than a couple of previous ones that I remember.

    I’ve never seen the singular CASTANET (what a strange sound that would would make – analagous to one hand clapping, as PeterO also noted), but the clue was clear enough.  I’ve only rarely come across the word SPARKY for an electrician, seeing and hearing the ‘dictionary’ word SPARKS much more often.  (SPARKY for an electrician isn’t in my dictionary.)

    I wasn’t too fond of the clues for DETESTS, CHOLERA and FIGHTER, but I can’t complain that they don’t work, and I thought all the other clues were excellent, making for a very enjoyable solve.  It wasn’t what I would call easy, though.

    The enumeration of G-STRINGS led quickly to the answer, and I parsed it rather easily just because I was looking for something amusing!

    Many thanks to Screw and PeterO.

  13. muffin @8 and Crossbar @11, an electrician is most definitely a SPARKY here Down Under. Other tradies include chippy, bricky and dunny diver, i.e. carpenter, bricklayer and plumber.

  15. Very straightforward by Screw’s standards but very inventive and entertaining, so no complaints

    Thanks to Screw and PeterO

  16. How I miss my Chambers:
    CASTANET in the singular made me wonder about the possibility of a fairy tale along the lines of the Little Tin Soldier. A lone castanet, part of a Victorian child’s flamenco outfit, lies abandoned in the basket and bemoans her fate. “Even the dusty dictionary denies my existence………..

  17. Thanks PeterO.

    For 18d, I was happy with the meaning in Collins for ‘test’ (or ‘testa’) as “a hard protective outer layer of the seeds of flowering plants” (from Latin: shell).

  18. Thanks PeterO and Screw.

     

    As muffin @ 8, I was another with MARACAS, so  I failed on 5ac.

    I also came here for the second definition of G-STRING, and it took a few seconds for the penny to drop – must have been obvious to PeterO?

     

     

     

  19. Thanks Screw and PeterO.

    I thought the clue for DETESTS was a mistake until I found abandoned = empty in Thesauruses. Mind you, it might have been clearer if ‘heartily abandoned’ or some such had been used. I thought I must be getting better at solving when quite a few went in early but I see the consensus is that this was a bit easier than some earlier puzzles by Screw.

    I thought the clue for G-STRINGS was excellent.

  21. Thanks to Screw and PeterO. Enjoyed the puzzle but came unstuck on the to right. Another who fell for maracas hence struggled with 5a, also missed the parsing on a couple including 10a. That said enjoyed the puzzle, nearly got there and there is always tomorrow. Thanks again Screw and PeterO.

  23. Swatty @13 Chippy and bricky are used here in the UK. Never heard dunny diver (thank goodness!) for plumber, though have heard of dunny from Ozzie relatives. To my ears that sort of y/ie/i diminutive ending is very Ozzie sounding.

  24. [A bit off topic, but what’s happened to the Friday Kakuro in the printed paper? I used to look forward to that! Am I alone in this?

    And come to think of it, that little daiy blocky puzzle (I forget what it’s called) has disappeared too.]

  25. As others have said, this was at the more straightforward end of the spectrum for this setter. I was okay with DETESTS (abandoned=empty; tests = measures, close enough, if you think of both words as verbs). But I agree with the quibbles about CARACAS and CHOLERA. As to the latter, PeterO’s versionnot only is more elegant, it also avoids my pet peeve, the non-rhotic homophone. But I’ve griped about that before.

    LIKE THE CLAPPERS is familiar to me only from previous crosswords, and SPARKY also isn’t in American English. But both went in fine anyway.

  26. Sorry to dissent from the general praise for this but I found quite a lot to dislike. I thought this week’s “spoonerism” mutt the custard touched a new low but “thai fur” rivals it. I also share the reservations about detests and cholera and dind’t think much of nestle or stat.

  28. [‘Today’s Sudoku was too small to do in the paper, and printing it off was a bit trickier than it used to be. Came out gigantic, though!]

  29. As I got through nine tenths of this at a good pace I thought “maybe I’m getting better at solving” then the last four (1a, 5a, 5d, 7d) took nearly as long as the rest put together. I came here only to discover Screw had gone soft so maybe my progress isn’t quite as I imagined – but I am seeing more of the devices straightaway so maybe it’s more steady than spectacular progress.
    I had difficulty with the parsing as others and was another SPARKS. I thought the G-STRINGS definition was brilliant, as was 8d, and there were lots more to enjoy so thanks to Screw and PeterO.

  30. I expected to see today’s puzzle praised to the skies. I don’t really have anything to add, just want to boost the ‘I loved it’ quotient. Many thanks Screw. Hope to see much more of you during the year. And thanks to PeterO.

  31. I was very interested to hear the US and Aussie views on ‘sparks’ and ‘sparky’ for an electrician after what I reported earlier (saying that ‘sparky’, although not new, is barely familiar to me).  In fact when I solved the clue I bunged in SPARKS based on S…S being the edging of ‘safety nets’ (as another contributor did), being too hasty to realise the clue didn’t parse!  So strictly speaking I get nul points for this ‘complete’ solve!

    [I also missed the Kakuro puzzle in today’s paper.  I can only conclude the Guardian have decided not to have a weekly Kakuro any more.]

  32. I enjoyed this. It was very much a tale of two halves, with the left half going in quite quickly and then the right half much more slowly.

    GIVE A HOOT is one of those expressions that’s only ever used in the negative. Has anyone ever said that they give a hoot about something?

    Crossbar @24: I think that “little blocky puzzle” was called Cell Block. I used to enjoy it, it’s a shame it’s gone. But I do think the position and size of the cryptic in the new Guardian is good.

     

     

     

     

  33. My problem with DETESTS is that for too long I thought it was DITCHES – they can be defensive structures, and if you abandon someone you can’t stand … no, it doesn’t quite work, but … Did my SE corner no good at all.

    Rather spoilt my great enjoyment of G-STRING, EXCLAMATION MARK and their ilk.

  35. Thanks to Screw and PeterO. Nothing much to add. Yes, I found this puzzle a bit easier than expected from this setter, but I struggled with LIKE THE CLAPPERS (my LOI) and needed help parsing CHOLERA and DETESTS.

  36. JimS @ 32: For most Americans of a certain age (say about 35-55, so I’m not using that term in its euphemistic sense), Woodsy Owl telling them every Saturday morning (in this and many similar public-service ads) to GIVE A HOOT about the environment is part of their fondest childhood memories.

  38. Difficult due to the surfeit of bittiness, I think.

    This sort of thing’s fine in balanced measure, but there seemed to be rather a lot of it here. Tricky (and often clever) definitions too adding to the strife, and one or two questionable things, such as having just one castanet (really), and the now celebrated ‘abandoned’ being a toughie to see.

    Does that really mean ’empty’ as in cleared out? Hard to say. Anyhow, this was a curate’s egg to me, some good things, and some unnecessary jungle to cut through.

  39. Failed on 5ac because I was another MARACAS. I’ve never heard of SPARKY for an electrician although it had to be from the clue and I should have been able to parse G STRING. I used to play the guitar for heaven’s sake!
    I thought the rest of this was rather good which is more than can be said for my performance today.
    Thanks Screw.

  40. I liked LIKE THE CLAPPERS but then I had a slight advantage.  There’s a narrow country lane near here called Clappers Lane – and if you don’t mind the potholes, the loose gravel, or the risk of meeting Farmer Giles trundling along in ‘is comboine ‘arvester, yes you really can cycle down it “like the clappers”!

    I did finish but with the odd non-parser.  I missed parsing AT ONCE – thought it was AT = TA reversed (“agreement about”) and then tried to make “parts” into ONCE.  And G-STRING seemed the only thing that fit but I didn’t see the “behind shower” bit of it – at least not until I read the blog!  I couldn’t help recalling the old Hamlet Cigar adverts (think: “Photo Booth”).  This is one of my favourites.

    Thanks to Screw and Peter.

  43. I liked this a lot – hard in places, but all fair

    A few bits of unfair criticism I think:-

    No reason why castanet needs an s at the end: here’s DH Lawrence for example: “And now the trio was a trio of castanet smacks and cymbal claps”.

    Fighter seems an immaculate spoonerism to me – at least in any British accent that I can imagine – and all the better for being harder to decode than Spooner clues usually are – don’t see that anyone has justified their concern?

    I pondered over whether the definition was maracas / Caracas too, but thought that the word “for” in the clue meant the definition had to refer to the city – (otherwise it it doesn’t parse properly).

    I did however need to come here for the parsing of Detests, but I think the explanation by Trovatore @1 just about works.

    Probably posting too late now for today – but thanks to Screw and PeterO

     

     

  44. Lots to like in this, particularly “behind showers” which I thought was beautifully incorporated into the clue.

    I had the same problems as many others with the parsing of DETESTS, so grazie to Trovatore.  I wasn’t too happy about it at first, but rationalised it by thinking of abandoned building = empty building.  i.e. More adjectival than verbal with “having” functioning as simply a linker.

    Clever puzzle.  Thanks, Screw and PeterO.

  45. @24 Crossbar above, and some later posts, referring to the absence of certain regular puzzles in the downsized Guardian format, sneakily unannounced – why not announce the changes openly and offer to justify them??…

    For me, the major absence is Pieceword. This is one of the items that some others may have been alluding to above – names of puzzles are not always easy to recall when you want them!  But anyway:

    The retained Wordsearch and Word wheel are absolutely standard and simple items of a kind already available in many other papers. Pieceword in contrast is/was distinctive, and much more challenging and satisfying, especially if you hide the adjacent and surely redundant ‘clues’; cutting those out would make it that much easier to fit Pieceword back in again, easy enough already by tidying up the mess of the back page of the new G2.

    They really are now straining the loyalty of people who subscribe whether via hard copy or online. Yesterday a headline (page 50, main section) said Refute when it meant Deny… Come back please, the paper that we all know and respect! Incidentally, I asked the crossword editor about the puzzle changes: they are nothing to do with him, but he has passed on the query, for what it is worth. Don’t hold your breath.

    echoing pedrox @43 above: “probably posting too late now for today [so why bother, you may say!] but thanks to Screw and PeterO”

  46. A quick Screw, and an exemplary blog PeterO.  I loved CASTANET and the cheeky G-STRINGS (behind showers indeed!).  I’ve posted before that I enjoy a good Spoonerism, and Thai Fur was OK; in contrast with OlegRahl @26, I thought Mutt the Custard (the other day) was touched with genius.  Takes all sorts.  Thanks as always.

  47. Having “stain” for 6D “Touch saint with own following (5)”

    ST (the more usual abbreviation for saint) + AIN (Scots for own) befuddled the NE for a while.

  48. I did remarkably well today only really struggled with 5 or 6 of them, my favourites being Sparky and Scotsman since I’m both (definitely a common term for electrician) thanks to Peter and Screw.

  49. I had all but 3 entries solved early this a.m., but only a short while ago had the PDM to see CASTANET (which immediately became one of my favorites) and SHAVE, my LOI.  [I saw CASTANET only after I drilled down on the clue for 5d and resolved that the wordplay did not work in both directions, and the answer had to be CARACAS, not maracas.]

    Like others, I though G-STRINGS was CotD (even if, as Alan B @12 notes, the enumeration of 1-7 gave it away), with EXCLAMATION MARK close behind.

    As evidence that we all have our different mental processes as solvers, I was surprised to see that so many others (beginning with PeterO in the blog) detested DETESTS.  I thought it was fine.  I guess I was on Screw’s wavelength on this one, because it never occurred to me to read “abandoned” as anything other than the adjectival meaning of the word, like an abandoned house, so the wordplay of using this device to get “DE” in front of ‘measures” [= TESTS] seemed very straightforward to me.  But of course, that is not how things always work for me!  I just as often find the shoe on the other foot, where I struggle with a particular clue only to come here and see that for some others, it was a write-in!

    From a crosswording standpoint, I was OK with the Spoonerism device in 17d, but I was wondering, from a linguistic standpoint — to the extent that a person might be prone to the occasional unintentional Spoonerism (I recall reading somewhere that contemporaries of Rev. Spooner disputed the claims that he was very prone to them himself) — whether the mixup of consonants (or letter groupings) in different syllables would ever occur within a single, two-syllable word.

    mrpenney @36 – Thanks for the walk down memory lane, with Woodsy Owl!  I think the upper age range (55) you give for those Americans who will remember those PSAs fondly is probably 5 to 10 years too low, but in any event I find myself wishing they would still show Woodsy Owl today (particularly to the current EPA Administrator and his boss, who could both learn a thing or two from Woodsy).

    Laccaria @40 – I enjoyed watching the old King Canute cigar ad (which I had never seen before), but I’m afraid I can’t see the connection to G-strings.  I believe you alluded to a different ad for the same product, but for me the apparent randomness of it was pretty amusing.

    Many thanks to Screw, PeterO and the other commenters.  Happy weekend to all.

  50. Well opinion seems to be divided, but any kind of Screw on Friday night is good enough for me – and my MARACAS went CARACAS

  52. Many thanks to both for the work, but a couple of comments.

    I groan when I see a Spoonerism as that is one thing with which I have never really felt comfortable. This one was a stretch too far but that might be explained by the comment but pedrox@43.

    In NZ a SPARKY is a common term, as are the other “colonial” expressions mentioned earlier. Growing up, the term we used was GOING LIKE THE CLAPPERS, so I was unaware of the shortened version.

    Like some others, I got fixated on variations of snapper in the top corner and that held me up somewhat. I also kept trying to use an ST start in 6D. It completely escaped me that that would not go with my fish of choice. Took a while but I did get there, so thanks for the entertainment.

  53. Laccaria @40 – I returned to your King Canute YouTube video and clicked on one of the “Up Next” videos that had a 9-minute string of old Hamlet cigar ads from the 1960s to the 1990s (none of which appeared in the U.S. market, to my knowledge), one of which was “Photo Booth”, starring Gregor Fisher, whom I recognize from Love Actually.  It was funny, as were the others — even to me, one who absolutely 18d’s cigarette and cigar smoking.  The “g-string” or “behind shower” connection to “Photo Booth” (assuming it is the same “Photo Booth” you had in mind) was still not entirely clear to me.  However, given the choice, I certainly prefer Gregor Fisher in a combover, to Gregor Fisher in a g-string! 

    D’OH!!!    I JUST GOT the connection!!  I was in the process of ending my comment by noting with amusement that the music in all of those Hamlet cigar ads is the same Bach piece (played differently!) that we had for the “processional” in our wedding, 25 years ago . . . until I recalled the name of the piece:  “Air on the G String”.  Well done, Laccaria! Thanks for a good laugh!

  54. Dave @49

    I really liked your strong defence of the use of ‘abandoned’ meaning ‘left empty’ in the clue for DETESTS, and I take back my implied disapproval of that clue in my comment @12 (even though I said only that I wasn’t ‘too fond’ of it).  It was difficult to see at the time, but I think it’s sound – your reasoning made good sense.

    I can’t say the same for the so-called ‘spoonerism’ of FIGHTER, unfortunately, as I think that was too much of a stretch, despite managing to get the answer from an indicated spoonersim!

  55. Pedrox @43 – the pronounciations given in Chambers for -er (the agent marker as in fighter) and for the ur of fur are different, and correspond to what I would expect. I can’t reproduce them on my phone.

    Quenbarrow @45 I wish I’d thought to cover up the clues for Pieceword. That would have made it much more fun.

  56. Crossbar @55

    Again exemplifying the risks of “sounds like” or, as in this case, “Spooner” clues – fir, fur, and fer are all the same for me!

  57. True, relatively easy for a Screw. But as ever, he threw in quite a bit of anagram based clues which might have helped to get the solver going.

    After two puzzles (Brummie, Paul) that were even easier [for me that is, of course] due to the obvious themes, this one I found more satisfying.

    I do not see the problem with the much discussed ‘abandoned’ at all. This is really a commonplace device for emptying a word – seen it many times before. 5d is indeed somewhat ambiguous but I think, ultimately, the use of ‘for’ does the trick. Homophones and Spoonerisms nearly always split the nation but, again, for me they were on the right side of the fence.

    And now for something completely different!

    Since The Guardian’s revamp there are, for those who do not solve a crossword interactively or do not buy the paper on a regular basis, two options to print off the puzzle. Since a week or so, the PDF version has become a complete and utter waste. The format is similar to the ‘Print’ version [portrait, clues underneath the grid]. However, when comparing the two, the grid is smaller and the font too. No value added whatsoever. Boys & Girls at the Guardian (those who had the idea for this), please change the PDF to ‘landscape’ and put the clues next to the grid. Which actually means make the PDF more or less identical to the newspaper version. Or otherwise, just dump the PDF version. What’s on offer now, I find a total waste of space and surely money too.

    (Mind you, if this not going to change in due course, I will repeat this complaint again and again – see what happened to the Indy printout which is just as crap, despite useful advice from solvers)

    Phew.

    Thanks to Screw and PeterO.

     

     

  58. muffin @56

    Fir, fur, and fer all sound the same to me too.  But even if they did not, I think it is an axiom of solving cryptic crosswords that, regardless of one’s native pronunciation/accent/dialect of English, “fir” and “fur” and “fer” must be acceptable “close enough” homophones of one another … and also of “fa”, or else collarer = CHOLERA would be too difficult to solve!

    I guess we solvers learn how to “squint our ears” a little bit.  All part of the fun!

  59. Too little too late, but I really enjoyed this. Agree totally with DodgyProf@50!
    The forum comments were a lot of fun too, raising several smiles along the way and leading to some interesting tangents. I liked the ebb and flow of the debates on various clues: the range of opinions and justifications made for interesting reading.
    Just to say 27a SPARKY was one that went straight in for me. Thanks to swatty@13, Crossbar@23, Alan B@31 and mystogre@52 for adding their comments – yes we do seem to like to add y/ie to words here in Oz and NZ…We call a plumber a “dunny whisperer” at my place, but I do like “dunny diver”. Back in the day, teachers like me were always called “chalkies” – but we were superseded by the advent of whiteboards and smartboards…sigh!

  60. In ‘castanet smacks’ is the word not adjectival?

    Certainly, the instrument is comprised of two elements, as far as I know, but instrument singular is the key: one does not play the castanet.

  61. An electrician has always been sparks in the theatre, and, according to my husband, in the navy as well. If the answer is ‘sparky why is the word ‘net’s there?

  62. Only just got round to this, but well worth the wait, easily the best of the week for me.

    I had no problem with SPARKY – it is what I would say – but Chambers (book) and Collins (online) both spell it SPARKIE.

    thanks PeterO and Screw

  64. This is late and somewhat off-topic but it might amuse. Many thanks to PeterO and Screw for excellent work. My odd experience was that I misread the clue for my LOI. I had in fact already solved 20D, some time earlier, but I then read it as the clue for 22D (not noticing the wrong letter count). The answer for 22D had to be OCEAN, so I had to make the clue fit this – so “Orally, one catches” (= homophone) “disease” (= de seas). Obvious, really! Daft, or what??? I bet Screw’s tester wouldn’t have spotted that potential howler.

  65. About that Spoonerism — the problem is not with the consonants but with the rhythm.  “Fighter” is a trochee, a stressed syllable and an unstressed one.  “Thai fur” is a spondee — two strong syllables one after the other.  If there were such a word as “tyfer”, it would have the rhythm of “fighter” and the Spoonerism would work, but with that different rhythm it’s too much of a stretch.

  66. Valentine

    You are right.  I was going to post a comment very similar to yours but found I was using too many words to make the point.  It’s the second vowel that makes it too much of a stretch IMO, because the phonemes for the sounds are different: it changes from /?/ (in ‘fighter’) to /û/ (in ‘Thai fur’).  [And I hope the special symbols appear correctly (WYSIWYG).]

  67. Me @66

    In fact the second of the special symbols appeared correctly but not the first, which appears as a ‘?’.  The first symbol is in fact a schwa – an upside down ‘e’ (representing a short unaccented vowel sound).

  68. Alan B @66 & @67 and Valentine @64. I agree. It’s more or less what I was trying to say in @55.

    I don’t mind Spoonerisms, but they will often be inexact, what with different national and regional accents to boot. Surely crosswords are more about the WRITTEN word and its component letters, rather than their sound?

  70. Thanks for your comment, Crossbar (@68).

    Yes, crosswords are about the written word, but spoonerisms are only about the spoken word.  If that device is being used we have to deal with the sounds of the relevant words (in the wordplay and the answer).

  71. Late to add this. I think I’ve said this before, but for me the only thing that makes a Spoonerism fun is that both ways round are genuine expressions. I’ll just about about accept “Thai fur”, but “Mutt the custard”? I don’t think so!

  72. muffin @71

    I know what you mean, but I disagree, I’m afraid.  For me, if a spoonerism is indicated there has to be a spoonerism, no matter how much or how little sense it makes.  An attempted spoonerism that doesn’t make it is a weakness, and I think it was fair to criticise the ‘spoonerism’ in FIGHTER.  Whether it makes sense or not doesn’t matter much, I feel, as long as it ‘makes it’ as a spoonerism (to use that phrase again) and can be indicated fairly to the solver.

  73. DaveMc @various – I was just about to provide an explanation about “G-string” but I realise you’ve had a ‘lightbulb’ in the meantime … well done!  I have many favourites in the genre – the photo-booth of course is another, so are the Columbus, Sir Walter Raleigh and Guy Fawkes ones (you can see I have a penchant for historical parody).

    My only regret was that there was never (as far as I know) one made about Isaac Newton.  I’d have just loved watching Sir Isaac, sitting under that apple-tree, watching the apple rise from the ground and re-attach itself to the branch, then ruefully turning to his book and crossing out paragraphs of text…..

    Regarding the debate about the Spoonerisms – are these perhaps the ‘marmite’ of Crossword-land – i.e. you either love ’em or you hate ’em?  Certainly I’m not a big fan, though I do enjoy the “d’oh” feeling when I crack a difficult one (and THAI FUR was certainly that)!  My main gripe is that you can’t really contrive a spooner-type clue without including the word “Spooner” in it somewhere.  A dead give-away! In the ten or so puzzles which I’ve been compiling myself thus far, I have yet to put a spoonerism into any of my clues.

    I have seen one puzzle (unpublished) by a fellow aspiring setter, in which he merely used the words “The Reverend” in a spoonerism-type clue.  Would this be accepted by the broad mass of 225’ers?

    Perhaps one day (if I ever make progress as a setter 😮 ) I’ll be really nasty, and include the word “Spooner” in a clue which is not a spoonerism…!

  74. Thank you PeterO for clearing that up for me. I had read the blog but misunderstood it. Duh. Still not keen on sparky though.

  75. Laccaria @73

    I’ve written a few hundred clues myself (as an amateur setter) but never including a spoonerism as far as I recall.

    To take up the challenge of your last sentence, how about this as a clue for REVEREND:

    “Army support service very short – the finish for Spooner? (8)”

    which could be revised to

    “Spooner, a soldier, has part of speech cut short – finis? (8)”

    I’m not too proud of these attempts – hence my late, late post which very few people will see!

  76. AlanB – looks good but you need a ‘definition by example’ indicator, because ‘Spooner’ is just one of many ‘Reverends’, not the other way around.  In your first example, the “?” does duty for this, but not in the second, I think.  Anyway, thanks for the tips.  I take it you’re an ‘anti-marmite’….

  77. Laccaria and Alan B: I love the idea of using “Spooner” in a clue other than to indicate a Spoonerism. How about this, for CANOODLER:

    “Spooner’s got Leonard and Co in a frenzy (9)”

  78. JimS @77

    My pure mind never thought of that possibility!  (So how did I ‘get it’ so quickly?)  Marvellous.  More entertaining than mine.

    Laccaria @76

    Actually, professional setters allow the use of a ‘?’ at the end of a clue to indicate a definition by example anywhere in the clue, not necessarily at the end.

  79. It must have been six or seven years ago that Peter Welton (aka Radler who published some barred puzzles, and can be found on Alberich’s website) send me a crossword in which the word Spooner was used in various, often misdirecting ways. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find it in my ‘archive’ anymore.

    If Peter reads this (probably not, although you never know), he might make his brainchild available to us, in one way or another.

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