Financial Times 14,230 by Cinephile

8 comments on “Financial Times 14,230 by Cinephile”

1. Thanks for the blog, PeeDee.

   For those who missed it, Araucaria was on ‘Newsnight’ last night – you can see it here here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21347467%5D and produced a special puzzle for the programme: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mk25/features/crossword

2. Hi PeeDee

   19dn: May I suggest that WAR DRUM only sounds like WARD ROOM if you speak in a northern English accent, as for example in Yorkshire?

3. Pelham Barton@2/PeeDee

   Agree with Pelham B about the Yorkshire homophone. PeeDee’s other comment about the plural made me think about it and I think the explanation is that “Ward Room” means, amongst other things, Naval Officers – not the room they use but the people themselves (“the officers of a warship collectively, excepting the captain” – Collins). But I think it’s “rooms” because it’s “ward” (a kind of room) plus “room”. So that bit of the clue is effectively a cryptic clue for “Ward Room”. The rest tells us that this is said “for…Yorkshiremen”, i.e. the solution is said like “ward room” if the speaker is from Yorkshire. I did it in a bit of a hurry and didn’t really notice but it’s actually a satisfyingly intricate clue, with the main laugh coming from the unusual “precision” of the homophone bit.

4. PeeDee

   Thanks for parsing 3dn. I couldn’t see it because the Latin for three is TRES.
   However TRE is used in modern Rome – in Italian.

   I find it very difficult to get my head round 19dn. Here’s my attempt:
   The first room is for naval officers: a WARD ROOM.
   The second room is heard when a Yorkshireman pronounces WAR DRUM.
   It’s a Cinephile clue: don’t enter either of these rooms, just enter the definition at the end – helpfully accompanied by a question mark.

5. Thanks Mike04, I meant Italian not Latin, fixed the blog now. (un)Fortunately I don’t know any Latin so I was not distracted by the spelling.

   Re 19dn I was initally put off the homophone explanation by it being ‘and Yorkshiremen’ not ‘for Yorkshiremen’, but added to the multiple rooms explanation proposed by Thomas99 and refined by mike04 I think gives quite a plausible explanation.

   I have never known Cinephile come back and explain clues here or anywhere else, so I guess we will never know for sure.

6. @mike04/PeeDee @4&5
   Yes – I think that’s definitely how I parsed it at the time, except I thought of it as “for” Yorkshiremen meaning that’s what what they would think one was saying when one said “war drum”. I suppose it does work, I was just rather excited at finding the other approach which seemed to account for the plural a bit better – but rather too elaborately, it seems to me now; the simpler parsing is normally the intended one. I don’t think there can be any serious doubt that it’s basically about the Yorkshire pronunciation of “War drum” as “Ward room” with the “for” carried over by the “and”. It obviously works, it’s just hard to describe and one can get a bit lost in the syntax.

7. Enjoyable puzzle
   It should be HI TECH in your parsing of 1 across.
   Keep up the good work!

8. Perhaps I’m being picky, but doesn’t 16a need something to refer to Austria’s historical status as an archduchy? For example, “Austria once, say,…”

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