Guardian 25,959 by Shed

51 comments on “Guardian 25,959 by Shed”

1. Thanks for the blog, Uncle Yap. I needed your help to parse 11a & 14a.

   Early solving of the long clue 3,20,4 was very helpful in gaining a foothold into the rest of the puzzle.

   My favourites in this puzzle were 26a, 13a, 16d, 2d, 15d & 9d.

   New words for me today were SESOTHO, LALLANS, DOUGHBALL, and Dougal the talking dog who I found in wikipedia.

2. Thanks Uncle Yap. I needed one crossing letter before the long answer jumped out and it was then steady progress until the top right corner where the notion of ‘cafeteria’ for 7d was a tad distracting. Some nice surfaces including 9d.

3. Thanks, Uncle Yap – good blog.

   I often find Shed tricky – perhaps because we don’t see him that often and I’ve not got used to his style. But this one fell pretty steadily, although I couldn’t get the long anagram until I’d got quite a few crossers.

   Plenty to enjoy today: I thought BREWER was nicely misleading, and liked DOUGHBALL because … well, I liked The Magic Roundabout when I was little.

   Thanks to Shed too.

4. Thanks UY and Shed

   Nice to see Shed back again with this well-clued puzzle. Some terrifying images in 3d etc and 14a but lots of nice light wit as well.

   I particularly liked 24a, 26a, 8d and 9d.

5. Quite an enjoyable puzzle – though I’d personally have stayed away from “Old dykes” = SAPPHISTS. That’s my only issue, though.

6. Just started attempting this regularly, so not used to setters yet. Enjoyed today’s.

   As others say, the long anagram was very helpful. I initially had STUN for 6, but the BREWER came to my rescue – strange how that happens!

   Having got the U and final L in 24, I was ready to write CHURCHILL for the talking dog…

   One slight quibble – I understood the teletubby is properly Laa-Laa, which made obtaining 18 down (a word I had never heard) rather tricky!

   Thanks for this blog – very helpful and fun to read.

7. Thanks Uncle Yap and to Shed for an enjoyable puzzle. We should really see him more often: perhaps I say that only because he’s a setter who has always been on my wavelength. This fell nicely, with just a slight pause before the end for ENRAPTURE / WEED.

   Agree with John Appleton re def of SAPPHISTS but anyone who clues Dougal is a friend of mine.

8. Thanks to UY for the blog. I needed you to explain the Tellytubby to me as I had heard of them but knew no more.

   I was pleased with 6a. So oftem compilers write the equivalent of ‘go backwards mad’ where you need a crossing letter to decide which bit goes backwards 🙂

9. Thanks, UY, for the blog.

   Shed must have had fun setting this. What a wonderful mixture – the innocence of Dougal and the Teletubbies [with a whiff of Bill and Ben in the hilarious 26ac], along with a biblical quotation, and then the suggestiveness of 9dn, all beautufully clued, with great story-tellinfg surfaces.

   I wasn’t keen on the definition of SAPPHISTS , either, [Chambers has it as ‘offensive slang’] but it did make a very nice surface.

   Many thanks, Shed, for all the smiles.

10. First time for everything I guess. After attempting the Guardian cryptic for more than 45 years this is the only time I can remember being offended by a clue – “old dykes”. Otherwise an enjoyable puzzle.

11. Thanks Shed; I don’t suppose many people would know the language of the Besotho. LALLANS was also new to me, and as Gatacre @6 says the Teletubby seems to be spelled/spelt Laa-Laa, even by the (C)BBC.

    Thanks UY; I just thought the 22d was a Grauniad version of 22a. 😉 TRATTORIA seems to be a bit of a favourite in down clues – among others: ‘Restaurant with alternative atmosphere and ostentatious paintings’ by Beale in Nov 2012.

    I particularly liked the bishop’s SCRUBBING BRUSH and the cyclist’s head lice.

12. paul @10; dyke is in Chambers and from Wiki:

    ‘In the late 20th and early 21st century, the term has been reclaimed by some lesbian groups. Examples in the culture include the comic strip Dykes to Watch Out For and the traditional Dykes on Bikes that lead pride parades.

    Matters came to a head when the United States Patent and Trademark Office denied lesbian motorcycle group Dykes on Bikes a trademark for its name, on the grounds that “dyke” was an offensive word. In 2005, after a prolonged court battle involving testimony on the word’s changing role in the lesbian community, the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board permitted the group to register its name. Popular culture still uses dyke as an offensive word, however.’

13. Many thanks, Shed and UY.

    A very quick solve, though I ventured a guess at “MONDALA,” not having aids handy and thinking improbably of Walter Mondale rather than Nelson Mandela.

    I have several times been offended by Guardian crosswords (which my inquisitive six-year-old daughter often helps me with) but have seldom found anyone to agree with me.

14. I usually struggle with a Shed puzzle but was obviously on the correct wavelength today. Nice to see good old Dougal here!

    Thanks to Shed and UY

15. I share the above reservations with the cluing of ‘Sapphists’. The term ‘dykes’ may have been partially ‘reclaimed’, but that doesn’t make its use here any less problematic. There is no way that I would refer to a gay woman that I didn’t know as a ‘dyke’, whatever it latterly transpires she calls herself.

    Relatedly, the acronym NAACP still uses the word ‘colored’, but I’m hardly being invited to join in.

16. OK, now I’m baffled. UY says “not an easy puzzle”, which always, but always means I have struggled or been defeated. But not this time! Bit of a breeze really. OK I had some guesses which were correct but they were fairly obvious guesses.

    Um? Lala? I thought, as do many others, that it was Laa-laa. Google “teletubbies names” and you’ll soon see what I mean.

    What’s the problem with “dyke”? Its a word. “Sticks and stones etc”. It’s reacting like sensitive little flowers that empowers those who would be insulting, so don’t react. As mentioned above, remember “Dykes on Bikes”, does that sound like those ladies are insulted? So why should those who are not involved be getting upset? It’s none of their business.

17. Robi @11, I think you mean Basotho, if you’ll allow some unsolicited pedantry. I too thought it might be obscure, but was one of the first in for me – having lived in South Africa when very young, I’d often watch TV programmes in that language, though without a clue as to what was being said. Kids, eh?

    I can think of a certain N-word that might have been reclaimed to some extent, but is still considered offensive (and I doubt would be allowed in a crossword). Indeed, it might not be the business of somebody who isn’t a lesbian to decide if it’s offensive; my point is that, were I a crossword compiler, I’d have stayed away from the definition as it has a very good chance of causing some offence. The “Dykes on bikes” thing does suggest that some aren’t bothered by it, but doesn’t say they all aren’t.

18. Yes i thought of the NWA band, where if they dsaid it, it was fine, but if someone else said it, wELL!!! You reallly cannt. I have some lesbian friends, they would not be happy to hear me us e that language, i.e. DYKE,, no way.

    But v. ggod puzzle > that Bioble quote is ace!

    Rowly.

19. Great blog Uncle Yap, and very enjoyable crossword; thank you Shed. I particularly liked the hidden meaning behind 9d and can only assume those who complain about dykes are unaware of it.

20. Eileen, regarding your comment on the Crucible crossword: “we were able quite quickly to enter the remaining answers on the return journey – apart from, most annoyingly, 7,14, where we had all the anagrammed letters and knew it had to be French but it just wouldn’t come.”

    That’s a perfect example where one could apply ‘Eileen’s Dispensation’.

21. Re the N word, several years ago me and a friend of the time of a certain descent, after we’d had a few jars would refer to each other using both that word and phrases such as “white trash”. We thought it was hilarious, probably because we were both adherents to the “sticks and stones” philosophy. We both thought getting upset by mere words was crazy. It is crazy.

22. I’d rather get comments about Laa-laa, that is obviously more important in a crossword sense.

23. Thanks, UY.

    I found this surprisingly straightforward for a Shed puzzle; it yielded steadily and fairly rapidly.

    Favourites involved frottage and head lice.

    “Dyke’ is, I feel, rather like ‘queer’: a word which is increasingly used within the group against which it was originally a pejorative term, but which is still rather iffy for outsiders to employ. I wouldn’t have used it in a crossword myself, just for reasons of sensitivity; personally, I don’t find any individual words offensive in themselves – it is the context and the accompanying attitude which can make them so. And words do change in this respect (cf ‘black’ and ‘coloured’ which have switched places in terms of respectable usage).

24. Ignorant misogynist? That woman would! (4)

25. Thank you, Uncle Yap – I did enjoy the 2nd You Tube clip – and how your grandchildren have grown, lovely. 🙂

    I’m downloading only puzzles set by my few favourites at the moment. Shed is a must and (bar 27a) I wasn’t disappointed. I smiled at the tip to his day job in the clue for 11a. As for Dougal, I used to rush home from school to watch at 4.15. I was the teacher!

    I share other’s reservations about the definition in 27a – I didn’t like it and was uncomfortable its inclusion.

26. Sorry, – “I … was uncomfortable with its inclusion.”

27. John Appleton @17; thanks for the correction. The entry in Chambers under ‘Sesotho’ obviously has a typo.

28. Thanks, Shed and Uncle Yap.

    Good to be on Shed’s wavelength today.

    Favourite was STEALTH BOMBER. What an amazing aircraft. When I saw my first one at an air show,I struggled to take in its form.It was definitely the star of the show.

    Although surprised at the old dykes clue, I didn’t feel it to be offensive. If certain sections of the community are treated with kid gloves; then they are effectively being discriminated against by not being treated as ordinary human beings.

    Giovanna x

29. Thanks all
    Another fine excursio by SHED.
    Last in was ‘moron’ ;but really it was the NW corner which held me up.
    Any wood which appears in th dictionary does not offend me.I cannott see any ccomments about 17ac, is it really cryptic?

30. OK. Why is nobody commenting on Lala when virtually every web-site, including the BBC says it’s Laa-laa. Are mistakes acceptable nowadays? You lot gone soft or something?

31. Derek @30; Shed could have used Clapton’s ‘Layla’ [with replacement] instead!?

32. That would have been more up us grown-ups street.

33. RCW, I’ve missed you!

    Giovanna xx

34. At the time of writing more than half the posts here have referred to ‘dykes’, most of them disapproving.
    (The other place has only half a dozen, but they do tend to go off-topic.)
    Unlike Rowland I have only one lesbian friend. She painted my house about two years ago. As she is now painting a neighbour’s house I consulted her. She said “Well of course when anyone refers to me as a dyke they intend to insult me but it’s only twats who do.”

    She also thought that feeling offended or uncomfortable on her behalf was a tad patronizing. And that crosswords are not real life.

    I find myself more or less in agreement with Derek on this. On the matter of LALA I think the intrusion of Teletubbies in an otherwise excellent puzzle to be in very poor taste. DOUGAL is real class.

35. I’m afraid that the possible offensiveness of ‘old dyke’ didn’t even occur to me as I was solving.

    As far as the puzzle is concerned I very much enjoyed it even if the long answer was something of a write-in as soon as some checkers were in place. It was an excellently constructed anagram all the same.

    I didn’t have too good a day today, having got one wrong when I did The Times this morning, and I had another one wrong here. I carelessly entered TIE CLIP, which fits the wordplay but obviously makes no sense as far as a cyclist is concerned. I vaguely remember making the same mistake the last time TOE CLIP was clued. I should have taken as much care over this clue as I did with SESOTHO, which was unknown but seemed the most likely of the options from the anagram fodder.

36. coltrane @ 19 I think you must be right. I new this word by a curious coincidence. About a month ago “frottage” was an earworm for me (if that’s the right word for something that won’t leave your brain), I have no idea where it came from, and I was quite surpirised when I looked it up!

    Perhaps “Good vibrations” would be a cryptic clue for frottage.

37. I have found why I have heard of frottage – Bonxie used it in 25,381 July 22 2011 “Target of peculiar rubbing”

38. And ‘product of peculiar rubbing’ is FROTTAGE CHEESE. I’ll rush this info to Hugh.

39. Giovanna @28 – “If certain sections of the community are treated with kid gloves; then they are effectively being discriminated against by not being treated as ordinary human beings.”

    I think you’ve missed the point of the objections. There are some words which are now unacceptable to many of us. I regard ‘dyke’, in this context, almost as offensive as the ‘n’ word for black people even though they use it in their own community.

40. RCW @29 Welcome back, have you been away?

    I’ve no real beef with the word DYKES used in this context – all’s fair in crosswords if it’s in Chambers – just wouldn’t use it myself.

    Fine offering from Shed, more please.

41. Thanks to Shed for the puzzle and Uncle Yap for the blog. New words for me were Sesotho, Manadala and Lallans. WEED was my COD.

    Cheers…

42. Another great crossword from Shed.

    Once the long clue was in everything fell into place. (Thanks for the subliminal hints Shed. 14a clue has “shady” and 10a answer “gorge”)

    As to being offended by “dykes”! My lesbian friends would laugh uproariously at such nonsense. Get over yourselves people. (Ref Hiking Dykes etc.)

    Thanks to UY and Shed

43. Wonderful to have two South African references (much easier than trying to find the name of some tiny Scottish island), but it raised an ongoing argument that I’ve been having with, well, just about everyone I know: the language of the Sotho people of southern Africa is Sotho. To write in English about seSotho being spoken by baSotho, or isiXhosa being spoken by amaXhosa, is equivalent to referring to French as ‘la langue française’ spoken by ‘les Français’.

44. Thank you rhotician. I’ve been to the pub, so I’ve got over the shock off us agreeing about something! We musn’t make a habit of it though, a good verbal dust up gives me something interesting to do! 😀

45. Uncle Yap, you know ‘Little brown jug’! I thought that would probably pass over everyone’s heads. Audreus used to sing it to me quite regularly when I was in short pants.

    I suspected that 27ac would cause offence in some quarters, and thanks to rhotician’s friend #34 for her comments. That’s pretty much my take on the subject, but there are some words that are in Chambers (and Collins) that I wouldn’t dream of including in a crossword. However, I hardly think ‘dyke’ is in the same class as the ‘n-word’ that is now deemed so offensive we can’t even spell it out. The clue was intended to ruffle a few PC feathers but most definitely not meant as an insult to any lesbian solvers.

    Thanks to UY for the blog and for all the comments.

46. The ‘sticks and stones’ argument is utter tripe. There is no word that can be applied to a white, straight, cis-gendered male that is equivalent – no word that might be the reason that you are beaten up in the street. In any case, I *do* object to being called ‘whitey’, certainly in a liberal broadsheet.

    The fact that some people refer to their *friends* with *jokily* pejorative terms is hardly reason for these words to be used more generally. As always, if you wouldn’t use the n-word in a related context, either explain the difference or don’t use the other word. Dykes on Bikes are, as has been mentioned, reclaiming the word. If you’re not a gay woman, you aren’t reclaiming the word, because you can’t. (The Lenny Bruce sketch on reclaiming racial slurs is magnificent, but wrong-headed.) Don’t get upset about it – I’m sure you’ll find solace in the fact that you’re not considered by millions to be an inferior parent simply due to your sexuality. As for NWA – are they role models now?

    The suggestion that, for example, referring to trans people in the manner that the odious Julie Burchill did in her Observer article (subsequently pulled from the website) earlier this year has no effect apart from some passive offense is ludicrous. The reason such slang has any salience is due to the prejudice that it strengthens. Similarly with slang relating to sexuality. Chambers includes ‘Yid’, ‘Paki’, ‘spic’, and ‘greaseball’ too – are they OK?

    Less than 50 years ago, homosexual acts were illegal in the UK. Right now, we still deny marriage on specious religious grounds, despite the fact that marriage is now a predominantly secular institution (more than two thirds of marriages are secular). I’m sorry to turn the comments section into a diatribe, but I grew up with blasé racism and I’m not going to put up with blasé homophobia. Have some respect.

47. Congratulations, you just empowered those who want to make words hurtful by admitting that they are having an effect.

    Let’s get one thing clear, when I was younger, I have been in the position of being in a social minority that was hated and despised by the rest of society. I actually know what being on the receiving end of such verbal abuse feels like. I never allowed it to bother me. The only people who were bothered were do gooders who had never been on the receiving end and therefore didn’t know what the hell they were talking about. I could have done without them, they were only making matters worse. We were dealing with it and our efforts were constantly undermined by do gooders.

48. You imply that racism and homophobia are best addressed by turning the other cheek. The real effect of prejudice is not mitigated by pretending that offensive language is inoffensive.

    So well done to you. You just dismissed all white civil rights activists as ‘do gooders’. Let’s look at that phrase, shall we? ‘Do gooder’ = one who does good. That is not a pejorative term. Similarly, the curt dismissal of the ‘PC brigade’ suggests what? That objecting to race hate and homophobia is a bad thing? Go read the Daily Mail if that’s how you feel.

    It’s good that whatever hatred you encountered didn’t faze you. That doesn’t mean that it was justified, nor that all minorities should know their place – which is to take any crap that is ladled out to them. But it also means – since you *didn’t* feel it – that you *don’t* know how it feels. In any case, of course neither of us know what certain forms of prejudice feel like. That’s hardly a necessary condition for objecting to it. I haven’t the slightest idea what having my country invaded would feel like, or how it would feel to have my religion constantly associated with terrorism. Compassion does not require literal sympathy.

    So please don’t suggest that it is the ‘do gooders’ and not the prejudiced who are to blame. Those who argue for the status quo never did any good. It isn’t OK to refer to gay women indiscriminately as ‘dykes’. Specifically, it’s against the Guardian’s editorial code, so it quite objectively shouldn’t have appeared in a Guardian crossword.

49. You should refrain from seeing implications, especially as you have just demonstrated a total incompetence at so doing.

    I never implied any of that.

    The situation of which I spoke was being handled in a very proactive way, no “other cheeks” were being turned. I said absolutely nothing that would imply the opposite.

    Peace and normallity do not come from war but settlements that follow war. We were trying to do what follows war, the do gooders could only see war continuing. Indeed they had no genuine interest in those involved, all they cared about was having an excuse to persue their own need to have something to be sanctimonious about.

    Had they walked the streets with us when we feared for our lives their input would have been useful. But they stayed at home and pontificated, and when times changed they still stayed at home and kept on pontificating, oblivious of the change.

    But even in the darkest days, allegedly bad words were never more than words, only fools mouthed them and who cares about the words of fools other than other fools?

50. Gentlemen, from #46 to #49
    That is enough. Please keep this post relevant to the puzzle rather than a personal interchange.

51. I do apologise for Lala, by the way.

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