Guardian 25,998 / Gordius

39 comments on “Guardian 25,998 / Gordius”

1. Thanks Eileen and Gordius
   I got to ETERNAL on the across clues, before solving one, so I was fearing another difficult one, but thereafter it went very quickly. I thought the clue for NUDE didn’t quite work, but your explanation demonstrates that it was cleverer than I had realised.
   Would 22ac have worked better without the “in”? It would still read on reasonably well from 20ac.

2. btw Eileen – misprint for 2dn. It is OBJECT + I’VE – you have given the “ive” twice.

3. Thanks, Eileen.

   I see your problem with the inclusion in 1dn but I found “wearing” in ENGAGED more annoying, especially since it was a key solution to other clues.

4. Hi NeilW

   I just knew someone would finally comment at the very moment that I was editing ENGAGED!

   Thanks, muffin – corrected.

5. Thanks Eileen and Gordius

   As Eileen suggests, I for one found this much easier than yesterday’s Paul.

   I also found it quite amusing in places and rather liked 11a, 17a, 26a, 2d, and 5d.

   Eileen and NeilW are quite right about 19a though one might just about conceivably try to manoeuvre the syntax – almost along the lines of the well known parody of ‘Hiawatha’s mittens’.

   When he killed the Mudjokivis,
   Of the skin he made him mittens,
   Made them with the fur side inside,
   Made them with the skin side outside.
   He, to get the warm side inside,
   Put the inside skin side outside;
   He, to get the cold side outside,
   Put the warm side fur side inside.
   That’s why he put the fur side inside,
   Why he put the skin side outside,
   Why he turned them inside outside.

   But even that won’t quite do.

6. Thanks for the smile, tupu. I’m afraid i didn’t find the puzzle so amusing as you did. 😉

7. Eileen, it was the fact that you hadn’t initially said anything about “wearing” that led to a long delay in my comment. I tried every way I could think of to make it work but finally decided that even Sir Les Patterson “wearing” his lunch wasn’t helping me!

8. I found this puzzle to be very enjoyable, especially after two very difficult puzzles yesterday. I particularly liked 10a, 6a, 28a, 25a, 14d as well as the paired clues 20a & 22a, and my favourites were 5d SEX ACTS & 11a NECROMANCY.

   Thanks for the blog, Eileen. I needed your help to parse 3d (the “PURP” bit) & 27a (I still don’t get it).

9. Hi Michelle

   NORMA is not quite ‘normal’ [like other women].

10. Hi Eileen. You might like to re-phrase that last comment! 😉

11. NORMA is not quite ‘normal’ [‘like other women’].

    [I knew someone would. 😉 ]

12. Oh dear, I must be dim-witted today. I get the NORMA = ‘not quite normal’ bit – it’s the ‘like other women’ bit that I don’t get yet and almost dread to ask…..

13. Thanks to Eileen for the blog. I am another who was left unsatisfied by my parsing of 6d: you showed where I was wrong.

    On 11 I had NECROMANCY then tried ROMA as the city but got nowhere 🙁 Thanks for clearing it up.

    I also fought ‘wearing’ in 19!

14. Hi NeilW @10

    Would you like to respond to michelle @12? 😉

15. Eileen@14
    Don’t worry – I’ll skip understanding this clue – I presume it has nothing to do with the opera, and I think I prefer not to know……

16. Thanks Gordius and Eileen

    Like others found this a mix of good and not so good clues.

    michelle, if NORMA was like other women – she would be regarded as ‘normal’ or fitting the norm. Without the L she isn’t quite NORMA(L)

17. Finally finished Paul at 11 last night so to have this out of the way just after I came back from the weekly shop is something of a relief.

    Gordius can be infuriating at times. As you point out Eileen, there’s no need for the ? in 1a and across the years Gordius is overfond of this mark I find. ‘Growth’ as a def for PLANE TREE is very weak, in what would otherwise be a clever construction. Yet there’s good stuff here too, including NABOB, WHEREUPON and DELFT.

18. bruce@16
    Thanks for explaining NORMA. That may just win the prize as my least favourite clue/answer of all time.

19. Anyone with a devious mind might find a libellous nina in this puzzle.

    I will say no more.

20. Thanks Eileen. A mixed bag I agree. Hard for me to imagine how anyone could find this easier than yesterday’s Paul.

    To Sidey, it seems I don’t have a devious mind.

21. Gordius’ error over the ‘wearing’ indicator that should indicate an inclusion is more common than we might expect from reputable setters. In this case, the erroneous 19a was also interlinked in the grid to its cross-referenced 6d, 8d and 12a which didn’t help.
    Thanks to Eileen
    Sidey: my mind not devious enough … yet

22. PURPORTED was my LOI with a shrug from the definition. I don’t see purp, or a homophone of it, as the sound of a horn either.

23. Perhaps it’s a French horn?

24. I thought “maria” was a good answer to 27A. After all, there is no-one like Maria” as the song says.

25. But I was wrong.

26. Quite easy for a Friday. (Disappointingly so!)

    I too spent too long researching why “purp” was the sound of a horn and how the “gage” was worn! However, being familiar with the setter I didn’t waste the evening! (It does beg the question, again, as to how the “editor” allows these obvious error to appear in print! 😮 )

    With regard to 8D Eileen I am amazed by your comment. Many is the time I have seen you blog an unequivocal direct definition from Rufus as “cryptic def”. Whereas “Male that might be engaged” as a standalone statement would be unlikely to lead directly to “boyfriend”. “Decorator” or “Stripagram” perhaps! Definitely a cryptic def if we are to allow our usual Monday fare without comment.

    Thanks to Eileen and Gordius

27. I wondered if 13d refers to change ringing of bells? The “one to call” the changes could be called a ring-leader I suppose, leaving “boss” as a straight definition of the whole word.

28. Brendan @ 26
    I don’t understand why you don’t accept that a “gage” can be worn – see
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gage

29. Muffin @28

    I was referring to the wordplay suggesting that “gage” should be worn. i.e. outside “end” and not inserted!

    By the way my definition was:

    2 A pledge, esp. a glove, thrown down as a symbol of a challenge to do battle; a challenge. Esp. in gage of battle. ME.
    Ld Berners Caste downe your gage in that quarell, and ye shall fynde him that shall take it vp.

    SOED

30. 19a – ‘wearing’ is wrong.
    1dn – ‘includes’ is wrong.
    5dn – ‘held’ is wrong.
    19dn – ‘started to’ is wrong.

    Then there are the dodgy definitions:

    ‘getting stuffed’ for TAXIDERMY,
    ‘not in time’ for ETERNAL,
    ‘years old’ for AGE,
    ‘like other women’ for NORMAL (worst of all)
    and of course PURP.

31. I had NANNA for 27a. There’s no-one quite like grandma…

32. Purp is a form of marijuana, hooter a marijuana cigarette.

    And yes I had to look that up!

33. Although that still doesn’t really parse for me. Sorry, it’s late.

34. Amazed @26: ‘Tree’ can lead to lots of answers. That’s not cryptic. Quite the opposite. Eileen’s right about 8dn. The use of ‘that’ instead of ‘who’ suggests a wider range of animal than the human but that’s it.

    Eileen, re 13d. ‘call’ for RING plus ‘boss’ for LEADER and a gang member might address the leader as “Boss”. Not great but not bad.

35. Rhotician @34

    I think you’re missing my point.

    Of course “Tree” is not cryptic.

    “Man that might be engaged!” definitely qualifies as a cryptic def. The phrase can have several meanings each of which could lead to many answers. “Boyfriend” not being by any means the most obvious!

    My point was that on endless occasions Rufus comes up with clues that appear to come directly from the dictionary. Look up the answer and yes, there’s the clue almost verbatim. Yet the many Rufusphiles on here make no comment and glibly say cd!!!!!!

    I guess we’ll end up agreeing to differ.

36. OK some bloggers do not think it appropriate to comment on clues. And Rufus is fond of the CD. But Eileen more often than most qualifies her description of some of his clues with “not very”.

37. Wow. Didn’t stand a chance with this. WAY harder than Thursday’s Paul!

38. Any pointers on this Nina? I’m stumped.

39. @sidey@19: Following HKColin@20, nametab@21, and Tom@38:

    /me too. I think we need to be told.

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