The usual friendly Monday crossword from Quixote.
Not much to add really except for a comment by Quixote himself.
| Across | ||
| 1 | SENTENCE | Part of a message maybe despatched from ‘ere (8) |
| SENT & (h)ENCE | ||
| 5 | ECLAIR | City den offering something at teatime? (6) |
| EC & LAIR | ||
| 9 | METRICAL | As some lines related to measurement (8) |
| Double definition | ||
| 10 | ALFRED | King starts to look frightened when captured by a revolutionary (6) |
| L(ook) F(rightened) in A RED | ||
| 12 | SCRUB | Clean up something in the garden? (5) |
| Double definition | ||
| 13 | SURPRISES | We hear teacher treasures the unexpected things of life (9) |
| Sounds like “SIR” & “PRIZES” | ||
| 14 | RUBY WEDDING | Doubling of score in match gives reason for celebration (4,7) |
| 2 Score = 40 hence 40th Anniversary | ||
| 18 | HEADHUNTERS | People employed by recruitment agencies? They’re after the tops (11) |
| HUNTERS of HEADs | ||
| 21 | MADE A PASS | Very foolish ape, silly nincompoop, tried to be flirtatious (4,1,4) |
| MAD & APE* & ASS | ||
| 23 | RIDER | Additional bit for one making journey (5) |
| Double definition | ||
| 24 | LEGATE | Emissary set to return having had meal (6) |
| GEL (set) reversed & ATE | ||
| 25 | REMNANTS | Stern man recycled the bits left over (8) |
| [STERN MAN]* | ||
| 26 | SESTET | Six together established in group (6) |
| EST(ablished) in SET | ||
| 27 | PERSISTS | After quiet start, one beset by terrible stress keeps going (8) |
| P & 1 in STRESS* | ||
| Down | ||
| 1 | SAMOSA | Urgent message goes round in the morning to get a bit of food (6) |
| AM in SOS & A | ||
| 2 | NATURE | Ruminate freely having abandoned motorway — what’s seen in the country? (6) |
| No M1 in RU(mi)NATE* | ||
| 3 | EDINBURGH CASTLE | He’s bad lecturing — words dissolving in big old building (9,6) |
| [HE’S BAD LECTURING]* | ||
| 4 | CHAOS | After tea there’s huge confusion (5) |
| CHA & O/S | ||
| 6 | COLORADO SPRINGS | US city of gold and scrap iron, so bizarre (8,7) |
| [GOLD SCRAP IRON SO]* | ||
| 7 | ACROSTIC | Puzzle posed by leading characters (8) |
| Actually it’s a not very cryptic definition | ||
| 8 | REDESIGN | Make new plans for journalist — give notice about that (8) |
| ED(itor) in RESIGN | ||
| 11 | BROWSE | Look through lines in English book that’s turned up (6) |
| ROWS in E(nglish) B(ook) reversed | ||
| 15 | BANJAX | Report of unwelcome message for sailors spells ruin (6) |
| My last one in, sounds line BAN JACKS | ||
| 16 | SHAMBLES | Quiet walks in York street (8) |
| SH & AMBLES probably not so easy for our overseas solvers | ||
| 17 | BANDAGES | Group taking a long time to provide forms of protection after accident (8) |
| BAND & AGES | ||
| 19 | ADONIS | Lad on isle — just some handsome youth (6) |
| Hidden in (l)AD ON IS(le) | ||
| 20 | CRISES | Panic ultimately increases in desperate situations (6) |
| (pani)C & RISES | ||
| 22 | SUEDE | Material couldn’t be kept upright, we hear? (5) |
| Sounds like SWAYED | ||
I failed to solve 15d BANJAX and I couldn’t parse 7d (still don’t fully get why it is cryptic) & 14a.
New for me was The SHAMBLES in York and it was very well clued for someone who did not know of this street, but of course I checked in Wikipedia.
I liked 27a, 10d, 1d, 16d and my favourite was 1a SENTENCE.
Thanks for the blog, flashling.
Thanks, flashling.
Exactly – a well-constructed and enjoyable example of the setter’s art of ‘how to lose gracefully’.
I thought EDINBURGH CASTLE was a good spot for an anagram, and BANJAX (my last one in) made me smile. I think it’s of Irish origin, isn’t it?
Michelle, an ACROSTIC is a verse or other piece of writing where the first letters spell out a message or a mnemonic, so that’s where the ‘leading letters’ come from. My Very Easy Method Just Speeds Up Naming Planets will give you the first letters of the planets in our Solar System, for example. Except Pluto has now been downgraded, which is kind of annoying.
Thank you to Quixote for today’s puzzle.
KDad@3 – thanks for the explanation.
Banjax very nearly banjaxed me as well.
I thought that both of the long place name anagrams were good, although EDINBURGH CASTLE was definitely the better of the two. BANJAX was also my LOI.
The long anagram place names were fairly easily gettable as crossing letters gave CASTLE and SPRINGS as the second words. I was held up for a bit, though, having put SEXTET for 26ac (of course I couldn’t then parse it). But X marked a different spot – and my LOI was BANJAX too. CoD was ADONIS
Thanks, Quixote and flashling.
Thanks for feedback. I was married on 28 July 1973, by the way!
Very nice stuff here from Quixote, and I think it is a lttle tighter than the rufus one today, where you don’t always get the ‘reassurance’ of the clue partys to confirm your answers.
I liked BANJAX & SHAMBLES best today.
rOWLY.
@Quixote congratulations for yesterday then, wot a Nina from Don?? 🙂
Thanks Quixote for an enjoyable puzzle and flashling for the blog.
8dn: I think “for” is part of the definition of REDESIGN as a transitive verb.
Congrats – yes, the possibility that it might have been there for such a reason occurred to me when I got that answer.
Thanks Quixote and congratulations on your RUBY WEDDING!
Indeed, many congrats to Mrs and Mrs Quixote for yesterday.
Many conratulations Mr & Mrs Manley.
‘Cryptic definitions’ (7d 14a) have been around for a very long time and I still don’t like them unless they are exceptionally good. RUBY WEDDING is good if you are celebrating yours – I’ve got another 6 years to go yet, so congratulations. BANJAX was my last answer too, but it made me smile, so thanks.
Yes, congratulations to the Manleys on their 14ac. Hope your 40 years have been as happy as our 41.
@pelham re redesign, not sure, think it works either way. Perhaps I should have paid attention in class forty years ago. One of the problems of not being taught latin or formal grammar I guess.
Flashling @17 re 8dn: Another point I could have made about including “for” in the definition is that otherwise it has to act as a linking word. To my taste, linking words need to fit with the cryptic grammar of the clue. On that basis, “for” works when followed by a definition as in 23ac, but to me it sits less comfortably when followed by wordplay. Taking “for” in the definition avoids the problem. As always, I have no quarrel with those whose opinions differ from mine.
I think the FOR would be okay as a link word (it is defined in one instance in Collins as ‘as a direct equivalent to’) were it not for the practice followed by some setters (especially Times ones) of writing clues with the style ‘wordplay for definition’. Nonetheless, having been quite surprised at how many of the definitions for ‘for’ do support looking at things this way around, I like the way Pelham describes a more natural order for 8D.
Paul @19: I take your point, and perhaps my statement was a bit too sweeping, and I can see a sense in which “for” works as a link word to introduce wordplay. In that sense it needs to be followed by a noun phrase, so it would work for me with the wordplay in 6dn or 11dn. It still does not work for me with the wordplay in 8dn, but as already noted, it does not need to do so.
Perhaps my general position is best stated as saying that there is no simple list of valid linking words, but rather any linking word used has to fit its context.
No-one seems to have taken issue with SCRUB as ‘something in the garden’. It is defined in Chambers as ‘stunted trees or shrubs collectively’ but most gardeners would not want their trees and shrubs to be described this way! It is more associated with larger areas than gardens.
Anyway, perhaps we are being a bit pedantic – thanks and congratulations to Quixote.
Thanks for the blog flashling.
PB, it could get more pedantic in that we might consider the surface as arbitrary: then, probably, we would have to be careful about what we see as ‘the grammar’ before jumping in!
If you have a moment (and not necessarily at this unearthly hour), I’d like to hear more about the ‘noun phrase’ idea. The relationship between cryptic grammar and surface is crucial, it seems to me, and I’m always trying to keep the two apart. I am not always successful …
Other PB.
Paul @22: Actually, on reflection and having typed out the first draft of what I have now edited below, I realise that my comments yesterday evening were based on a misinterpretation of the structure of the wordplay in 8dn, as I will explain below.
All statements (within this comment) of how something should be are my preferences, and nothing more than that.
My general principle is that any device used should be grammatically correct, and that includes any linkage between definition and wordplay (or second definition). I try to avoid being constrained by general rules, but rather treat each case on its own merits. This may mean that any attempt to make general rules can seem complicated.
If you consider the wordplay in either 6dn or 11dn, the overall package still has the structure of a noun. A test that may do the job is to think if the wordplay could be followed by “give(s) a way of constructing the answer”. Thus:
In 6dn, “some letters rearranged give a way …”.
In 11dn, “some letters inserted in some other letters give a way …”.
Now consider the following clue that is similar in appearance to 8dn:
Make improvements for people – give notice about that (5)
Answer: AMEND (MEN in AD)
In my clue, the structure of the wordplay is “some letters – put some other letters around them”. It would not make sense to follow that with “give(s) a way …”: you would need something like “and you will get a way …”. To me, that means “for” could not be a linking word here – it still (just about) works as part of the definition.
Where I was going wrong in thinking about 8dn was taking the word “give” as part of the containment indicator. As I write this I am actually not clear in my own mind as to whether I would be happy with “for” as a linking word before the wordplay in 8dn as it was written by Quixote. However, I stand by my earlier statement that taking “for” into the definition removes the problem, and I think my alternative clue supports my position that “for” is not automatically satisfactory as a linking word.
In a normal cryptic clue with no linking word, each part of the clue should be grammatically correct, but there is no need for the two parts to join grammatically.
As to surface grammar, it is highly desirable if the clue as a whole makes some sort of sense, either as a complete sentence, or a partial sentence, or possibly more than one sentence. Of course, the words in the clue need not be used in the same way in the surface reading as they are in the cryptic reading.
I should stress once more that I have no quarrel with any of the clues in this puzzle, or with anyone who is not bothered about these niceties of construction. I only ask that others respect the right of commenters such as Paul and myself to discuss these matters.
Hi PB, I really appreciate your response.
Unfortunately we might get sidetracked into a conversation about the validity of ‘give’ in the example you have created, whereas I would be more interested in looking at what’s a grammar-free lump, regarded in SI as singular or plural according to the setter’s whim, and whether or not any link-words are correctly used.
Quixote is always fastidious, and for me in 6 (ANSWER of (as in ‘from’) FODDER adjectivally anagrammed) is the grammatically correct construction, while in 11 (ANSWER (=) E-D, R-E-S-I-G-N about that) is, again, the grammatically correct construction. The words in SI lose their normal grammatical usage, since it is not really possible to have a synonym for an arbitrary letters-string: it’s all smoke and mirrors down there in the cryptic reading, for me anyway, and I know some people will not concur. But hey.
That one you did for AMEND would be, in my strange world, (ANSWER for (i.e. ‘as a direct equivalent to’) M-E-N – give A-D about that), and would seem also to be grammatically correct, apart from procedural initiatives (i.e. it’s not ‘wordplay for definition’) as mentioned further up the thread. There are any number of defs for ‘give’ that will let you off the hook in that case.
Nice doing business with you, as ever, and I share your caveat.
Other PB
23 Across: the word ‘bit’ was an extra clue to get me in horse riding mode! Thanks Quixote.
Interesting discussion above.
I fear, I am rather simple in this: I would like to avoid “definition FOR wordplay” as it goes against my intuition.
Why is 11d part of the discussion?
There is no link-word there. One just have to cut up the clue in pieces (ignoring the surface): Look through // (lines) in (book that’s turned up).
Or am I missing the point?
Anyway, I also had to think of an interesting article by Monk at Alberich’s website published quite some time ago:
http://www.alberichcrosswords.com/pages/linkwds.html
Sil @26:
I have just read your comment. I agree that there is no linking word in 11dn (or 6dn, for that matter). I was merely picking those from the clues in this crossword as examples of the type of wordplay that I think would sit comfortably after a linking “for”.