Independent 8371/Radian

This blog is my first to give the clues. I thought to do so was a waste of time, because anyone who has solved the crossword and is in need of enlightenment or is simply interested in what people have said will have the clue to hand in any case. But the program that Paul Drury has produced for doing this is so good and easy to use that in fact it’s not a waste of time — it’s probably quicker.

So I think I’m going with the flow and will welcome feedback on whether or not this is a good thing to do.

Radian’s offering today is as usual very nice — the large amount of cross-referencing irritated me at first but it was easy enough to see what was going on, and there was also a golfing sub-theme. The unchecked letters all round the side suggest some hidden message, but I can’t see one and suspect that all Radian’s efforts went into filling the grid in accordance with the themes.

 Across

8 Heading the right way at Muirfield (2,6)
ON COURSE
2 defs — Muirfield is a golf course

9 Junior hacks swig litres in discos (5)
CLUBS
c(l)ubs

10 One of 14’s right to retire (4)
NEIL
(lien)rev. — ref Neil Diamond

11 Church dissenter, smoker and motor controller (10)
CE REBEL LUM
smoker = chimney = lum — the cerebellum controls our motor faculties

12 Diggers passed ground (6)
SPADES
(passed)*

14 Stones reported to be upset about second new director (8)
DIAMONDS
(said)rev. about (mo n d)

15 9 gannets perhaps eat rook (7)
D(R)IVERS
golf clubs

17 Nice fuel for one of 21 (7)
ESSENCE
Whenever I see Nice in a crossword the alarm bells ring, as it’s a standard way of indicating Frenchness (the town Nice) — essence is the French for petrol

20 Green features screening people in Santiago (8)
CHI(LEA)NS
Santiago is the capital of Chile

22 One of 9 has ruined one cherished by writer (6)
MASHIE
((has)* 1) in me — a mashie is an old golf club

23 Beat one of 9, 12, 14 or 21 in plastic (10)
MASTERCARD
master [= beat] card [= one of C, S, D, H]

24 17 became attached near the 22D (4)
MEAT
becaME ATtached — a good hidden that wasn’t immediately obvious

25 Press get shot of star’s bottom in this? (5)
THONG
throng with {sta}r got shot of

26 Turn left, manoeuvre craft – it carries 9 8 (4,4)
GOLF CART
go l (craft)*

Down

1 Not feeling great but doing well 8 (5,3)
UNDER PAR
2 defs

2 Excessively large one of 12, for example (4)
TOO L

3 Dresses in fine 14 (6)
F ROCKS

4 Germany’s unusually eager to keep 14 lower (7)
DEGRADE
D [= Germany] (eager)* round d

5 Arctic vessels, each berthed originally in Nova Scotia? (8)
ICEBOATS
(e{ach} b{erthed}) in (Scotia)* — nova is the Latin for new and is the anagram indicator

6 Caterpillars, say, mostly clip lowest points, cutting hole (10)
BULLDOZERS
I didn’t understand this at the time (it was my last one in) and hoped that when I came to blogging it all would be clear. After an effort it seems to be def ‘Caterpillars, say’, Bulldo{g} zer{o}s

7 Having come out, is taken to court (6)
IS SUED

13 Breaking loyalty, left Union for home rule (10)
DEVO(L U)TION

16 Traffic scene where garda ordered some to be had up (4,4)
ROAD RAGE
wheRE GARDA ORdered — hidden rev.

18 Chief rival harassed lady, finally showing courtesy (8)
CHIVALRY
ch. (rival)* {lad}y — ch. = chief where?

19 Embassy guest beginning to go off lasagnes, unwell (7)
ASSANGE
({l}asagnes)* — ref Julian Assange of Wikileaks

21 Tries to secure base of mainmast in quarterdeck? (6)
HEAR({mainmas}T)S

22 One of 21 did without one in race (6)
MI(D{i}D)LE

24 One of 9 married one of 9, 12, 14 or 21 (4)
MACE
M ace [one of the four suits]

*anagram

19 comments on “Independent 8371/Radian”

  1. I welcome the clues, as it saves me having to flit from one monitor to another!

    re 6a, that’s how I read it – a Caterpillar is a type of bulldozer, a bulldo(g) clip, and zeros cutting o (hole). Bulldog clip did have me scratching my head for a moment.
    Much to enjoy here, and thanks for the puzzle and the blog.

  2. Thanks for the blog, John.

    “ch. = chief where?”: in both Collins and Chambers. [eg Ch.Supt].

    I really enjoyed this beautifully crafted puzzle, especially 17ac and 21dn. Many thanks to Radian.

  3. Clues welcome here too, besides simplifying reading the blog they provide a searchable archive which is a good thing.

    Nice (not the French town) puzzle. I don’t think I’d have ever parsed bulldozers though. Thanks both.

  4. Yes fine Eileen, but doesn’t it need to be on its own? Many words, such as chain, child and chestnut, are given for ch. in Chambers but not chief.

  5. I think that adding the clues to the blog is helpful.

    Considering the gateway clues were easily solved I found this more of a struggle than I should have done.

    I got BULLDOZER from the definition of “Caterpillars, say” so thanks for parsing it. MASTERCARD was my LOI after the penny dropped that “beat” wasn’t the definition. I thought the reverse hidden for ROAD RAGE was excellent.

  6. John @4

    The example was my addition. Ch [with a capital] = Chief is in my 12th Edition Chambers on its own. Also on its own [lower case] in my more ancient Collins.

  7. I think this is a good puzzle too, but there are those bits people have mentinoed which are a bit ‘Guardiany’. BULLDOXER was very hard I think because ‘clip’ is a ‘DBE’, so it is hardf to choose a word to match.

    Thanks John, nice to see the clues!!

    Rowly

  8. Superb puzzle as always from this setter – really good workout – and thanks for the blog John.

    Ch for chief may come eg from Ch Supt for Chief Superintendent in the police.

    Caterpillar is the leading brand worldwide for bulldozers – easy for one on the land – maybe tougher for townies, other than those in building and construction.

    Bulldog is a type of clip so clip is not a definition by example – the other way round it would have been – not as given.

    Oops – should I have abbreviated definition by example to DBE – maybe best not – sounds like setter talk to me. Not for those of us like me who struggle with tough puzzles like this one.

  9. I enjoyed the way that the four card suits were used in the clues, but I found the puzzle easier to solve than parse in that I solved but couldn’t parse 6d, 20a, 16d, 10a.

    My favourites were 11a, 13d, 22d, 5d, 17a.

    New word for me was MASHIE.

    Thanks Radian and John.

  10. @Rowland

    Which comments complain about anything being Guardiany? I don’t see any. Nothing but praise – except from you.

    Seems to be your favourite term – Guardianisms, Guardiany etc. Endless complaints about the Guardian. Originally you told us that you were primarily a Guardian solver.

  11. Please do not start again your bullying Jolly Swagman. I will not respond to you, because you are angry.

    Rowly.

  12. This one had me beat in the end, although I got the four card suits quite early. It was a clever puzzle, with the references to the suits being devious and varied. I liked CEREBELLUM best today. What I didn’t like was the confrontational comment at no 10.

    Thanks to Radian and to John – inclusion of clues most welcome.

  13. A bulldog goes woof, first and foremost, you could say. But in terms of clips, ‘Bulldog’ is a brand name for a binder clip (the generic term), made by Brandsley Ltd, which is in turn licensed to Faire Brothers & Co Ltd. So to be absolutely on the money, a ‘Bulldog’ is a type of binder clip.

    I won’t say anything about the comment at 10, because I’ve been asked not to involve myself in such matters. But I do find myself agreeing with everything in K’s D’s post at 12.

    Lovely puzzle by Radian, superbly set, and thanks also to John for his clued-up analysis.

  14. I got more smiles from the puzzle than the comments. It was a cracker despite my dislike of clues which don’t make sense. A criss-cross of overlapping themes which entertained me enormously. Disappointed that Radian couldn’t fit DIAMONDS into ICEBOATS though.

  15. Ximenes may disagree with Barnard on capitalisation but that’s to do with capitalisation in the surface disguising the required translation into the cryptic reading. Here we’re already in the cryptic reading by the time we come to Bulldog so it’s arbitrary, ie cryptically Bulldog = bulldog = BULLDOG.

    Put simply:

    A Bulldog is an example of a clip.
    A clip is not an example of a Bulldog.

    Further the “rule” that defs-by-example should always be indicated is not immutable. There’s a discussion here:

    http://www.crosswordunclued.com/2010/06/definition-by-example.html

    Whether dog breed names should be capitalised in English generally is a vexed question. Dictionaries and the usual sources of pedantry (Style guides etc) tend to suggest a bizzare mixture of those that should and those that shouldn’t. Logically they should follow the rule for proper nouns – where there are multiple words they should all (except internal connectives) be capitalised. That’s what is done within the dog [breeding etc] world itself.

    BTW I am not in the least bit angry. If I was any more relaxed I’d be fast asleep.

    Look: 🙂

  16. @KD #12

    What is confrontational about that?

    R said at #10

    “but there are those bits people have mentinoed which are a bit ‘Guardiany’”

    I couldn’t find any so I asked him to identify them. He didn’t. Instead he accused me of bullying.

    We were reminded recently of the need to comply with the site rules. Rule #2 states:

    Any criticism of a puzzle or clue must be valid, constructive and presented in a polite manner. The reason for any dissatisfaction should be clearly indicated. Comments that do not comply with these criteria may be removed.

    Using terms such as “Guardianism”, “Guardiany” as pejoratives, and especially doing so without specifying the exact issue, flies completely in the face of that rule.

    In this instance “people have mentioned” suggested that others found it Guardiany – I asked him to identify the comments he was referring to. He has not done so and I can’t find any.

    BTW – I note that apart from throwing “confrontational” at me you didn’t answer the question either.

    @Eileen – sorry – missed that you had pointed out Chief for Ch Supt earlier.

  17. We were very late to bed last night so very late starting the puzzle!

    We would like to have said that we checked the blog this morning after completing the puzzle but we were unable to sort out 10ac. So, thanks John for that one out and also for your parsing of 6d which we solved without knowing why!

    We started reading through the comments but after a few of them we decided not to bother.

    Thanks Radian.

  18. Thanks for the blog, John. (Clues are always appreciated, even if I have the crossword in front of me.) 16d had me trying to make DRAG RACE, then ROAD RACE, work before I had a *duh* moment and noticed the hidden answer. ESSENCE as French for petrol was new to me. And I jotted down “Bulldog clip?” in the margin; glad to see my instinct was correct.

    Like other commenters, I found this to be a very enjoyable solve. A clever mixing of two themes. 24d also could have been clued “One of 9 married one 8.” But I prefer Radian’s choice, which helps guide the solver to the 4 suits theme. Thanks for a fun diversion, Radian.

  19. A splendid puzzle which took some completing, notwithstanding the theme. Agree that cerebellum and bulldozers were beautifully done. Thanks Radian and for the blog.

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