This was an interesting puzzle, with some tricky devices. Thanks to Philistine. The setter being who it was, I was on the lookout for a theme. I think I’ve found it, but am not too sure –
the key clue is 1down. In the grid I’ve found 6 instances of rhyming couplets/pairs of words. These may be just coincidences, in which case I’m totally off the mark, or there may be more I have not found (pronunciation always being a tricky thing, as previous discussions on homophones will attest). Definitions are underlined in the clues. [[The pictures at the bottom have unidentified links to the puzzle. Please enclose any comments on them in double brackets. Thank you.]]
Across
1 Help stomach and bottom line initially coated with blusher, free for all (5,3,6)
ROUGH AND TUMBLE : { HAND(help, as in “please give me a hand with this) + TUM(childish term for stomach) plus(and) 1st letters respectively of(initially) “bottom line” } contained in(coated with) ROUGE(a cosmetic to make it look like you’re blushing).
9 Minor problem with Gents: solver’s outside (9)
YOUNGSTER : Anagram of(problem with) GENTS contained in(… outside) YOUR(possessive pronoun for you, the solver;solver’s).
10 Pit bull terrier (stray one’s gone) (5)
OXTER : OX(an adult castrated bull) + “terrier” minus(…’s gone) [“err”(to stray beyond what’s right) + “I”(Roman numeral for “one”) ]
Answer: Dialect for the “armpit”.
11 Nonpareil de Perfide Albion (5)
IDEAL : Hidden in(de;French for “of”) “Perfide Albion“. The italicised phrase is the French translation of “Perfidious Albion”, referring, in international relations, to the treacherous British, though it could also be used in a sort of humorous context. Does the surface mean the British do it best?
Defn: From the French, without equal or match.
12 Style of 22, trimming tails to nail lizard by return (9)
BRAZILIAN : Reversal of(return) { “nail lizard by” minus their respective last letters(trimming tails to) }.
Answer: A styling of the pubic hair(answer to 22across) – a prerequisite to wearing the Brazilian thong?
13 An awkward niggle surrounds gathering (8)
GLEANING : AN contained in(… surrounds) anagram of(awkward) NIGGLE.
Answer: As a verb, gathering the grain left behind by reapers.
14 21 (not half) takes tea and cake (6)
GATEAU : “gaucho”(answer to 21down) minus the second half of its letters(not half) containing(takes) TEA.
17 Coarse content of shoals, in more ways than one (6)
OAFISH : The 2 inner letters(content of) “shoals ” + FISH(the content of shoals;large schools of fish) – 2 ways of interpreting “content”.
19 Jezebel shorn (8)
STRUMPET : S- TRUMPET(a musical -horn).
22 Bush is one occupying bar stool (5,4)
PUBIC HAIR : I(Roman numeral for “one”) contained in(occupying) [ PUB(a bar;a watering hole) + CHAIR(a stool) ].
Defn: Slang (vulgar?) for pubic hair for its resemblance to, well, a bush.
24 Lament rejection of where to enter solutions online … (5)
DIRGE : Reversal of(rejection of) E-GRID(short for an “electronic grid”, whimsically, where one would enter solutions to the online version of this puzzle).
25 … in unpredictable order (5)
EDICT : Hidden in(in) “unpredictable “.
26 Clinic ends telecast with “50% reductions for customers” (9)
CLIENTELE : “Clinic ends telecast ” minus the latter half of their respective letters(with “50% reductions). Nice surface image of those “clinics” advertising on late night telemarketing.
27 Traditional way of dumping pricey facilities by landlord (4,4,6)
DEAR JOHN LETTER : DEAR(price;expensive) + JOHN(slang for the toilet;facilities) plus(by) LETTER(landlord who lets out his property).
Answer: A traditional way of dumping your male lover by mail, eg. “Dear so-and-so (or what’s-your-name-again?), It’s over. Your ex.”
Down
1 Rowing thus to have begun,Off went the Olympic gun (7,7)
RHYMING COUPLET : Cryptic defn: The description of the 2 lines “…. begun” and “….gun” which rhyme. Except for providing the surface, I can’t tell if the words themselves contribute any more to the answer. There’s also no space between “begun,” and “Off” in the online version, though the capital letter signifies a new line, as in a verse.
2 Nice articles written after you heard this country’s leading guitar (7)
UKULELE : { LE,LE(2 x the grammatical article as written or spoken in the local lingo in Nice, France) placed below(after, in a down clue) homophone of(heard) “you” } placed below(…’s leading, in a down clue) UK(abbrev. For the country this puzzle is published in).
3 Greetings! Glad NHS treatment found in Scotland! (9)
HIGHLANDS : Anagram of(treatment) [HI(hello!;greetings!) + GLAD NHS].
Answer: With a capital letter, a mountainous region in Scotland.
4 Pay attention: nobody welcomes the offbeat (4,4)
NOTA BENE : NONE(no one;nobody) containing(welcomes) anagram of(off) BEAT.
Answer: Latin for “note well”, a term, often abbreviated to NB, to draw attention to something important.
5 Road junction to which beer enthusiasts return (6)
TARMAC : T(a type of junction, eg. of roads, piping, etc. in the shape of a T) + reversal of(return) CAMRA(acronym for “Campaign for Real Ale, a British consumer group consisting of, well, beer enthusiasts – apparently now the largest single-issue group there). Nice image of pub(s) on the corner of the junction.
Answer: A road paved with tarmac, short for tarmacadam.
6 I travel to the North from South Island, perhaps (5)
MAORI : Reversal of(to the North, in a down clue) [I + ROAM(to travel with no fixed purpose) ]
Answer: An indigenous race from New Zealand, consisting of South and North Islands.
7 Crude line art on its wall (7)
LATRINE : Anagram of(Crude) LINE ART.
Answer: The “it” in the defn. where one might find crude line “art” on its wall. A WIWD (wordplay intertwined with defn.) clue.
8 Twice raise the admission to be last in (5,2,3,4)
BRING UP THE REAR : [BRING UP + REAR](2 x to raise babies and youngsters) containing(… admission) THE.
15 Plenty of cake served in a disco (9)
ABUNDANCE : BUN(a cake) contained in(served in) [A + DANCE(a style of which is the disco, performed in a, well, disco).
16 Playing “A” strings, possibly scales (4,4)
STAR SIGN : Anagram of(Playing) “A” STRINGS .
Answer: An astrological sign, an example of which;possibly is Libra, symbolised by a pair of scales.
18 Hot fortnight perhaps on French island? (7)
FEBRILE : FEBR(first half of the letters in “February”, which month consists of 4 weeks, half of which makes a fortnight) placed above(on, in a down clue) ILE(French for “island”).
Answer: Feverish.
20 Rampant priest penetrates cheeky sexual deviant (7)
PERVERT : Reversal of(Rampant) REV(short for “Reverend”, title for a priest) contained in(penetrates) PERT(cheeky;forward in behaviour). Risque surface – ooh!
21 Cowboy recovered from a cough (6)
GAUCHO : Anagram of(recovered from) A COUGH.
Answer: A cowboy from the pampas of South America.
sans horse.
23 Queens provide (5)
CATER : CAT(an adult female of which is a queen) + ER(abbrev. for Elizabeth Regina, the Queen) – that makes 2 queens.
===================================================================
Thanks for the post. I didn’t get all of the clues.
In 1 down, The R from Rowing plus “the Olympic Gun” form an anagram.
HI Scchua
1d. Rhyming Couplets is an anagram of R (1st letter of “Rowing”) and “the Olympic gun.
Thanks for the blog, no idea about the pictures.
Ooh err Missus! Quite a crossword from Philistine and what a blog scchua with photo of BRAZILIAN thongs. It was probably sensible not to illustrate PUBIC HAIR here!
I must say that I really enjoyed the ROUGH AND TUMBLE, which in our house was a game played by my husband and our young children when he would try to lie on and occupy the bed and they tried to get on it, only to be ‘thrown’ off and as I predicted it usually ended in tears, after which they of course wanted to play again . . .
[I am now puzzling over the pictures and the only one I have so far is the top middle = RONALDINHO. He is a BRAZILIAN footballer (who has just had his teeth ‘done’)].
Thanks scchua and Philistine
Very enjoyable solve, though there were a few I didn’t parse fully (including the lovely STRUMPET).
Favourites were LATRINE and DEAR JOHN LETTER.
I wonder how many other solvers were delayed by an inability to spell UKULELE (“ukelele”)?
[[The last pic. is of SIMON (and Garfunkel). Paul Simon’s first solo album after the split was “There goes RHYMIN’ Simon.(?)]]
[[Not first album – third, I think?]]
Thanks, scchua. Very inventive puzzle from Philistine, making an interesting follow-on from yesterday but bad luck to have that FEBR clue appear the day after Paul’s UARY one!
[Paul SIMON also sang ’50 Ways to Leave Your Lover’ of which a DEAR JOHN LETTER would be one, but I don’t think it can be that].
Thanks Phil and Sschua. A most enjoyable puzzle. Loved 1d and s-horn.
[[I think they’re possibly all guitarists: Paul, Django …?]]
[The lyrics to ‘The Dangling Conversation’ by Simon and Garfunkel include:
And you read your Emily Dickinson,
And I my Robert Frost,
And we note our place with bookmarkers
That measure what we’ve lost.
Like a poem poorly written
We are verses out of rhythm,
COUPLETS out of RHYME,
In syncopated time
Lost in the dangling conversation
And the superficial sighs,
Are the borders of our lives.’
I think this is perhaps too obscure so I will cogitate further whilst getting on with household chores].
Thanks Philistine & scchua.
I particularly liked 1a, 6d, 16d, 20d, 26a, 4d and my favourites were 23d CATER, 27a DEAR JOHN LETTER & 17a OAFISH.
New word for me was OXTER.
I couldn’t parse 10a, 19a, 18d & 5d.
I think there is a type in 9a – it is an anagram of GENTS inside YOUR.
I parsed 1d in the same way as PaulD@1, and initially I also entered “ukelele” like muffin@4, until I realised a U would be better for parsing it!
Thanks, scchua.
Great clues, great wit, great puzzle!
Huge thanks to Philistine for brightening up a wet morning.
Thanks scchua. Three of the long ones went in quickly but. the splendid 1d took quite a lot longer. Failed on OXTER. Some saucy surfaces (20d) and solutions, all good fun. Thanks Philistine.
[[Douglas Fairbanks was in The GAUCHO.
The singers are a total mystery (apart from Simon and Garfunkel, but I would only recognise the name of something from the Graduate).]]
Thanks sschua. Loved this puzzle.
This compiler has truly understood the old adage that a crossword well done should be an agreeable tussle between setter and solver that the former is destined to lose.
[[Pics I think are:
Skeeter Davis & Bobby Bare (Reference to puberty?)
Ronaldinho (Brazilian)
Ferlin Husky & Jean Shephard (Had a hit with ‘Dear John Letter’ in the early 50s I think)
Douglas Fairbanks (Rough & tumble roles in swashbucklers?)
Simon & Garfunkle (See George @9 above)]]
Thanks a lot Philistine
Thanks scchua and Philistine
An enjoyable puzzle with lots of clever clues.
I managed to sort it all despite some areas of ignorance, except that I hastily plumped for offish in 17a despite having thought of oafish.
I ticked 9a, 19a, 24a, 2a, 2d, 5d, and 18d.
Incidentally, I learned the other day the UKULELE in Hawaiian means ‘jumping flea’. Quite why I felt the need to share that with everyone defeats me.
Some good , some bad (like 19 or 8 or 20, gobbledygook indications) my usual noan I know, yawn yawn, but it is a shame. Just another look could have jollied this up. Havinga said that I don’t think there are any clues here that I really like, and I don’t usually say tha about The Guardian!.
But we have hasd a good week, definitely.
Cheers
Rowly
Lovely puzzle – real tour de force – and great blog scchua.
Glad I’m too late for the picture quiz – would have failed that anyway.
Universal praise here well-earned.
1a – I think Aussie Plodder @ #2 has it.
Wordplay is R + (THE OLYMPIC GUN)* – which uses up the whole surface.
Def (by example) likewise.
So that makes it a real live 100% &lit.
I think the missing space is prolly just a typo – and I can’t see any theme arising from it – but that’s never my forte.
Good puzzle. Favourite clue: strumpet (it’s a lovely word, as well). I first came across the word “oxter” in a biography of Errol Flynn. A supporting actor who had to appear shirtless was told to get his armpits shaved. Flynn intereceded, demanding that “those magnificent oxters” were left untouched. A word to slip into conversation wherever possible, I think…
Like tupu, I went for ‘offish’ which I realise was stretching the definition a bit. Otherwise, on the whole, an enjoyable puzzle.
Thanks PaulD and Aussie Plodder for clarifying 1down. And Michelle too, the typo now corrected.
[[Right george, Ian SW3 and William: Paul Simon – 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover/DEAR JOHN LETTER; Fairbanks/The GAUCHO; Husky and Shephard/DEAR JOHN LETTER. In addition to BRAZILIAN, Ronaldinho has another connection with the puzzle, and it is Davis and Bare/??. So it’s not too late, Jolly Swagman.]]
[[Was the “Dear John letter” one of the 50 ways? I seem to remember various ways of walking out (“Just get on the bus, Gus”) were more prominent!]]
[[muffin, no it wasn’t; Simon’s 50 ways (what were in the lyrics anyway) were non-traditional ways of dumping your lover – an anti-connection to the puzzle, so to speak.]]
The -inho ending in Ronaldinho is a Brazilian diminutive, making him a YOUNGSTER at any age, no?
Great Crossword, great blog {[Ronaldinho was first known as Ronaldo o gaucho because he came from southern Brazil}]
[[That’s it, coltrane!]]
I realise that I am in a minority (of one) among the refined but sophisticated contributors to this site but I have become rather tired of the endless bucket of slurry from which certain setters seem to pull their steaming clues. Today’s crossword had some excellently constructed clues and was notably fair but it was not a great pleasure to solve. It’s no good telling me that if I don’t like smut I should look elsewhere for a crossword. I am a Guardian reader and actually pay for my copy and I want to do a crossword that doesn’t turn the corners of my mouth down.
I see that many contributors thought that this was witty but I hardly imagine that if they got the same sort of stuff from behind the counter when buying a sausage in the butcher’s that they would be much amused.
(I am not a prude and can eff and blind with the best of them but I try to contain myself over the breakfast table.)
I’m always one for seeing the other POV, as I enjoy the experience and thinking in another opinion, and it’s been good to hear from you guys today on this puzzle that seems to have divided down the lines pretty neatly.
I don’t know whether the clue is in the compiler’s pseudonym or not, but I found myself with a range of views from ‘how would you get a job as a writer with clues like THAT’ to genuine admiration. Stumped on that one, actually, so very many thanks for the honest conversation.
‘Rhyming couplets’ was one of those I consigned to the can, by the way, while ‘pervert’ – if you buy ‘rampant’ as a backind – was topical and amusing.
Best to you all for a cool weekend.
Tom Hutton @27, I agree thoroughly with your comment, though this crossword was relatively unsmutty compared to some. Don’t expect much sympathy from others on this site, though, nor from the editor, whose retort to any objection is generally along the lines of, “We’re all adults, so anything goes.” Never mind that we’re not all adults, and even some of us who are don’t welcome crudity in a national “broadsheet” crossword for just the reasons you state. There no longer seems in general to be any recognition that certain themes and vocabulary are not appropriate in all circumstances.
Hell, handbaskets, etc.
Thanks for the blog, sschua. [[Sorry I was too late for the picture quiz.]]
Can anyone explain the purpose of the ellipses in 24/25 (other than to create the appearance of a single continuous thought spanning two clues)? It seems that both clues would have been just fine without them.
Tom @27: I was surprised (but not offended) to see 22/12 show up here, as they seem more befitting Cyclops in the PE (a setter I’ve only recently discovered). But I’m an American, and our culture has foisted upon the world the likes of Charlie Sheen and Lindsay Lohan (sorry about that, BTW), so I probably am a poor judge of what’s appropriate for The Guardian (which I only know from its free online crosswords), or any other British paper for that matter. Cheers.
I think it was 20 that was the most offensive clue, rather than 12 or 22. I am surprised no one objected to the word “pervert” as no longer politically correct. The preferred term is “Liberal Democrat,” but I digress…
Well, you’re right there as well Ian, but I thought to keep going with it all might be just laying in a little too hard. I really thought, too, it might be just me!
It’s one of those Guardian things, Keeper, but the two clues as linked do make a kind of sense.
To me, I should add, in this atmosphere of peace and love.
A very amusing solve, and I didn’t have a problem with the appropriateness of any of the answers. I can think of a multitude of more important things to get worked up about.
Scchua, a little aside on your pictures at 22a. Actually quite modest by Brazilian standards, this type of beachwear is known in Brazil as “filo dental” , Portuguese for “dental floss”, for obvious reasons!!
Andy B @34. I’m with you here. A few weeks ago the Guardian reported that every 10 seconds a child dies of hunger. Now THAT is something to get worked up about.
I don’t recall anyone suggesting that the content of the Guardian crossword was the most important thing in the world, but surely it is an appropriate topic in a blog devoted to … erm … the content of the Guardian crossword.
I loved it very witty and mouth turned up several times not down. A bit of smut enlivens the day! All fairly innocent. 20 very topical!
Yes indeed, but it’s horses for courses – there’s always time to see the other POV, isn’t there.
I agree with you about the state of the world, too.
It baffles me that “pubic hair”, “bush” as a euphemism for same, “Brazilian” semi-ditto, and even “pervert” can be same as vaguely smutty. These seem to be the solutions in question.
Presumably said definitions are in the Chambers standard reference (I don’t own one), so are de facto acceptable in a crossword.
If you’ve been able to solve them, then you’re in tune with the setter…if you find them ‘smutty’ that seems to me to be a reflection, not an absolute statement…otherwise it might be time to resurrect Mt Bowdler, methinks…
Just my 0.02, trying but probably not succeeding in being dispassionate (as opposed to disinterested)
Simon
***seen*** not same…sorry!!
Digressing completely, at the time of the demonstrations against the (then) imminent invasion of Iraq, on another discussion group I’m on, a father posted about how proud he was to see a picture of his daughter on the demo carrying a placard “The only bush I trust is my own”
OK, enough from me for today
It is the clue to 20, not the solution, that was over the top. I am not offended by pubic hair, but I don’t like it with my porridge.
I also don’t see why asking a setter to keep his crosswords clean is in any way akin to Bowdlerizing Shakespeare.
As for the suggestion that any word in Chambers is acceptable (in any context, or just in crosswords?), I once, after a similar disheartening debate and the suggestion that mere words could never offend, posted here, sarcastcally and in exasperation, that I was a silly [word in Chambers beginning with C]. My post was deleted as offensive, proving my point.
Anyway, enough from me. Even I have better things to do.
Another really good crossword in an 80% brilliant week 😉
Again I found this tough. After a slow start the usual breakthrough came but then things rather came to a halt with the puzzle three quarters done! I also must also admit to not being able to spell ukelele (there’s proof) which did hold me up for a while. I was also an incorrect “offish” who had considered oafish but wasn’t bright enough to spot the wordplay.
Keeper, you obviously know what the ellipses signify and in this case I believe the spanning thought/concept was e as in e-commerce e-mail etc. So the first clue invented e-grid which actually helped me to find e-dict. Of course it was a joke! Not that hilarious but it raised a smile in my case.
Now to the more alarming situation regarding comments about so-called smut. I almost find these comments as offensive as the the writers claim to find the clues. Almost prurient in fact. What pray is offensive about the discussion of such matters as pubic hair or sexual perversion? I assume the people in question don’t read the rest of the paper until well after breakfast as far more “offensive” material is contained therein.
So the solution is simple. Do the crossword after reading the paper 🙂
Thanks to Scchua and Philistine (oh and also Hugh for an exceptional week.)
with reference to the points raised by Tom Hutton (27) as to the nature of some of the clues, I am expending energy, writing this, that, yes, could be Better Spent. Also, as Coltrane (36) pointed out there are events all around the world every day that are really obscene (“Every 10 seconds a child dies of hunger”).
However one does not ‘forget’ the extreme obscenities we glide over every day by also objecting to the ‘tone’ of some of this (and other) crossword. Ian (43) made the most salient point, it is not the vocabulary one would challenge so much as the clue (20 down). The world that the clue inhabits is a weary ‘cheeky’ one.
I have submitted this too late? (revealed -it can take me this long to, almost, complete a crossword) (and I didn’t get 20 down).
It is quite simple, words and phrases are not of themselves smutty just because they can be used that way. It really is amazing how such a simple concept is beyond some people’s understanding.
And um, how exactly can a part of the body be regarded as smutty? Except by people who have wierd and distorted hatered of their own and other peoples bodies. We are human, we should be proud of everything that makes us so.
The newspaper which they read over their breakfast table is full of words like paedophile, this relates to vile criminality, but a word like pervert generally only refers to certain preferences most of which are not illegal. So they read the first in the paper and say nothing about what they read, then they read the latter in a crossword and belly ache. Consistent isn’t it?
Celia Hart @45
“The world that the clue inhabits is a weary ‘cheeky’ one.” !!!!!
Sorry it’s in your head. This statement could refer to caring and loving within a marriage. But I suppose that’s not allowed either. Or if it is we’re not allowed to talk about it. 😉
“Rampant priest penetrates cheeky sexual deviant” could refer to caring and loving within a marriage? I suppose it’s possible, but I still wouldn’t expect the priest or the deviant spouse to tell me all about it.
Yes, Derek, et al., it is simple. My six-year-old daughter grabs the crossword from me and insists on filling in the words — asking the meaning of any she doesn’t know. She does not show the same interest in newspaper articles. And the fact that we are bombarded all day long with smut and horrors (and those of us with small children spend a great deal of time trying to filter and distract) doesn’t make it OK to extend the bombardment to what was once the innocent pleasure of a daily word game.
Those of you defending the clue, would you really think the puzzle lacking if it didn’t have that content? And would you really not bat an eyelid if your breakfast cereal box came with a picture of a rampant priest penetrating a cheeky sexual deviant? You might not take offense yourself, but why is it so hard to see (or care) that it might offend others? Do none of you ever moderate your language and subject matter depending on whom you’re talking to and where? Really?
I actually enjoy the Private Eye crossword, smut, ribaldry and all, but I know what I’m getting and not to let it fall into too-young hands. At once a fortnight, the smuttiness is amusing rather than cloying. A daily does is too much.
Ian, you still miss the point, words are not smutty.
Do you think anyone, at any age, should be protected from “to pervert the course of justice”? Everyone should be taught about what is and what is not lawful. So you want to fail in your duty to do that because one of the words has other meanings?
Pubic hair is just normal biology. That is only smutty if you are full of self hate or hate of others. That area of the human body is what caused you to be created, it is what you were born out of, so presumably, if those areas are to be regarded as dirty, having been produced by them, you must have been born dirty. There is no logic to such prudery. Biology is biology, regarding any part of it as smutty is unscientific.
Re 44 and ellipses you are blessed, Brendan, with a far deeper understanding of setterly intent than the average solver, with which you also, and very sportingly, imbue Keeper! But how are you able to say that? Is there a secret hotline I should know about? If it’s not an 09 prefix, I may even dial it.
I’ve been a Guardian solver for many years, and IIRC there was something of a competition going on between the compilers, perhaps it was in the 90s, to see who could have the highest number of these infernal dot dot dot clues in his or her puzzle. I don’t know who won, but the solvers, IMHO, definitely lost out.
IanSW3 @ 48 & bootikins @ 50 thank you for restoring my faith in human nature in light of some pretty silly stuff elsewhere, and for cheering me up no end into the bargain.
All I’d add to the discussion re what’s acceptable and what’s not is that The G has a bit of form in this regard, seeming to lack sensitivity on occasion. One or two things here (in the puzzle, I mean) seemed puerile rather than cheeky.
For clever, and thus acceptable smut, see G compiler Paul.
Derek, I don’t believe anyone has objected in this thread to the word pervert, nor have I gone on about pubic hair. If you really maintain, though, that no word can offend without context, I refer you to the Chambers entry under “C” mentioned above.
The offence is in the eye of the beholder. There is no reason at all why an anatomical word (such as you refer to) should cause offence when used anatomically. Some people seem to think that a word can be offensive just because it is not derived from Latin, that is just snobbery. If two words name the same thing then one cannot be offensive whilst the other is offensive, that is utterly ridiculous. If one of those words is used in a way for which it was never intended as a term of abuse it is not the fault of the word, it is the user and the manner of use that causes offense. To then say that such abuse stops the word having it’s original, non-offensive meaning is nonsense. I think people have a tendency to have a “sensitive little flower” reaction that does not contain any logical reasoning. The word is not the problem. Usage is the problem. The word by itself, without context, should not therefore cause offense as there is no indication of intended usage.
Suppose I was to say to you, in a tone of voice which implied abusive intent, “you horrible saint you”. Then presume it catches on and loads of people say it like that. Are you then going to say the word saint is offensive regardless of context? Because that is exactly what has happened to other words.
OK, I take your point on the shifting nature of “offensive” words, though I think there are some terms that would (now, at least) give offense no matter how benign the intent in uttering them, and it would be naïve to suppose otherwise.
In any event, the clue to 20d is not a word with no context, and I do not think there is any way to dress it up as appropriate for a daily crossword.
By the way, thank you to Paul B @51 (if you or anyone else is still following this tedious discussion) for crediting me, inter alia, with restoring your faith in human nature, but I wouldn’t want to take responsibility for a firm belief in that nature. Much of it has throughout history been pretty selfish, violent and repulsive, and it has always been a struggle to overcome it for the common good. It is tempting to say what a shame it is that we seem nowadays to have given up trying, but that has itself been a pretty constant sentiment in every generation. So has the conviction of some to think they’re being clever or sophisticated by claiming to let all inhibitions to human nature hang out. Yawn.
And so to bed.
Yeah, you’re right, when one side goes into the world of the irrational it becomes pointless. When you know no offense is intended but still take offense then we are in the realm of the seriously irrational.
Why is everyone using ‘offense’ instead of ‘offence’? Neither SW3 nor Lazenby is across the pond, AFAIK.
It’s enough to unrestore one’s faith in whatever human nature is.
Border line dyslexic. I tries me best, but it doesn’t always work.
Derek, how does the hearer/reader know the speaker’s/writer’s intent? If I address a member of, say, a particular racial group with a racial epithet I know to be offensive, can I really expect my audience to accept my explanation (if I am allowed to make one) that I intended it benignly? You expect the audience to be both rational and clairvoyant.
Incidentally, I have just had the expected reply from the editor to my complaint. Apparently, the clue is acceptable to the overwhelming majority of Guardian readers, so it is OK. Of course, it used to be an excuse for making a racist joke that the overwhelming majority of one’s audience weren’t “those people.” I thought we were beyond that, but plus ça change …
Bloody philistines the lot of ’em then Ian?
I’m amused no one really spoke of the obvious theme in this puzzle (sschua, what rhymed words?)
It is what some of you are calling “smut”.
When I finally cracked 12, BRAZILIAN which gave me 22, PUBIC HAIR I laughed out loud and thought, wow, Hugh allowed this? But yes, there are no “dirty words” here. A bit of slang, yes. But no smut.
I knew after a few hours or however long I spent on this that 12 was going to get me to 22.
Then I looked again at some other answers…
Rough and tumble
Bring up the rear
Dear John letter
Strumpet
Latrine – the key answer – “bathroom” humour…
Clientele
Febrile
Oxter
Oafish
and of course pervert
The theme is sex and adult human relationships, smelly and disgusting and full of body parts and social issues in all their beauty, confusion, and abuse. Yup, this was a crossie with a grown-up theme, that was not necessary to understand to solve.
Thank you, Philistine, for a wonderful puzzle, Sschua for a great (but confusing – rhymed answers?) blog, and Hugh, for defining the edgy edge of where Grauniad setters can go. Private Eye would have considered this puzzle too subtle 🙂
Oh and thanks to the rest of you.
Explaining the clue for 20 to a 6 year old is easy: “sometimes the surface is just gibberish”.
PS, I forgot to say, wow, it has been a great week at the Grauniad. I still have three 1/2 finished Rufus puzzles under my not-yet-started-prize by Enigmatist, though.